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Community Forums › How Can I locate my Family in Italy › Southern Italy › Catasti?

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Catasti?

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MauroMags
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:20 pm    Post subject: Catasti? Reply with quote

Hello all,

I've posted this question, albeit in another form, on other Italian genealogy websites but i figured i would ask this question again....since its a new forum, I figured what the heck...

Anyways. The earliest ancestor that i have found for my surname (Magarelli) dates back to 1760. Nice... but just like the rest of you out there, i dream of going even further back. So of course i see the catasti onciari as the next possible step....However, I'm at a loss to how i can find that information w/o flying to Naples or Bari.

The catasto onciaro i'm looking for is for the city of Molfetta (BA), which according to the archivio website of Naples & Bari was finalized in the year 1759. Since that was potentially a year before my earliest ancestor was born (i'm not certain, since dates from so long ago are usually unreliable) I would need to see all the Magarelli's listed on that specific catasto.

Is this an unreasonable request?

Would an archive provide me with such information?

Are their geneologists that would provide me the info at a reasonable price?

Here is what I've done thus far:

* I've emailed the archive in Bari asking for a listing of Magarelli's found on the catasto onciaro of 1759 but received no response (i emailed them before for military records and received a quick response)

* I've mailed a snail mail letter to the parish in Molfetta asking for the death record of my earliest ancestor. I provided the name and the EXACT date of his death from 1803 (i found it listed on another family member's wedding act) No response yet


Sorry for this long email....but i just curios to see if there are any other options out there

thanks,
Mauro
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Cathy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti? Reply with quote

Welcome to our forum Mauro. May I ask how long ago you emailed these requests? What archive did you ask? Sorry, I'm a little unclear. Embarassed

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MauroMags
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti? Reply with quote

Hi Cathy,
I emailed the archive in Bari around Nov. 06 I mailed the letter to the parish early this spring (not sure exactly, i don't have the exact date at this moment)

I guess i could be a little more patient, i just fear that my emails and letters have gone into that lonely abyss of lost genealogy requests.

thanks,
Mauro
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nuccia
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti? Reply with quote

MauroMags wrote:
Hi Cathy,
I emailed the archive in Bari around Nov. 06 I mailed the letter to the parish early this spring (not sure exactly, i don't have the exact date at this moment)

I guess i could be a little more patient, i just fear that my emails and letters have gone into that lonely abyss of lost genealogy requests.

thanks,
Mauro

Mauro..

I would following up the email with a letter. I had a similar problem and it turns out the email never made it to its destination. It got lost in cyber space! I think you've waited long enough. When I wrote the archives it didn't take this long..of course, Riccardo did a one point intervene on my behalf when he felt it was taking too long and I received an answer the next morning.

I've never written to a parish before but I have heard that its difficult to get answers from them. The priests are usually very tight about releasing records.

I could be wrong though so please don't just take my word for it. Hopefully someone will be able to confirm or deny this for us.

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MauroMags
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti? Reply with quote

Hi Nuccia,

I will definitely send a follow-up letter to the archive in Bari. Should i send an additional request to the archive in naples, since they also have a copy of the catasti there?

BTW, Nice new site !!!

Mauro
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JamesBianco
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti? Reply with quote

nuccia wrote:
[I've never written to a parish before but I have heard that its difficult to get answers from them. The priests are usually very tight about releasing records.

I could be wrong though so please don't just take my word for it. Hopefully someone will be able to confirm or deny this for us.

Yes Nuccia, you are correct, more often than not The Church will not respond, unless you have some sort of contact in the town, and even then....

Sad

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti? Reply with quote

MauroMags wrote:
Hi Nuccia,

I will definitely send a follow-up letter to the archive in Bari. Should i send an additional request to the archive in naples, since they also have a copy of the catasti there?

BTW, Nice new site !!!

Mauro

I would definitely send the requests to both. It got to the point where they actually know who I am now since I've written so many letters in the last few months.

Thanks James for the confirmation but here are maybe a few other ideas...

If you want to write to the Parish again, you may want to enclose a self addressed envelope and perhaps a small donation. I'm a bit weary about sending cash though. Theres been so much on the news about thieves. Do you know anyone in Italy that might be able to make a donation on your behalf? Or maybe someone who lives there that has a pay pal account that would be willing to purchase the stamps for you and make the donation?

Just a few things to think about to make it easier..

I'm glad you like the site and I hope you'll continue to post. We've been pretty lucky here lately. Its funny..most of the research we do here are "Over The Ocean" as opposed to local research and Amercian look ups. I'm really liking it and am learning so much.. Very Happy

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ricbru
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti? Reply with quote

MauroMags wrote:
Hello all,

I've posted this question, albeit in another form, on other Italian genealogy websites but i figured i would ask this question again....since its a new forum, I figured what the heck...

Anyways. The earliest ancestor that i have found for my surname (Magarelli) dates back to 1760. Nice... but just like the rest of you out there, i dream of going even further back. So of course i see the catasti onciari as the next possible step....However, I'm at a loss to how i can find that information w/o flying to Naples or Bari.

The catasto onciaro i'm looking for is for the city of Molfetta (BA), which according to the archivio website of Naples & Bari was finalized in the year 1759. Since that was potentially a year before my earliest ancestor was born (i'm not certain, since dates from so long ago are usually unreliable) I would need to see all the Magarelli's listed on that specific catasto.

Is this an unreasonable request?

Would an archive provide me with such information?

Are their geneologists that would provide me the info at a reasonable price?

Here is what I've done thus far:

* I've emailed the archive in Bari asking for a listing of Magarelli's found on the catasto onciaro of 1759 but received no response (i emailed them before for military records and received a quick response)

* I've mailed a snail mail letter to the parish in Molfetta asking for the death record of my earliest ancestor. I provided the name and the EXACT date of his death from 1803 (i found it listed on another family member's wedding act) No response yet


Sorry for this long email....but i just curios to see if there are any other options out there

thanks,
Mauro

Hello Mauro,
I think that it is more easy to get that death record from the parish of Molfetta, since you gave to the priest the exact date of death, than getting the copies from Catasto Onciario kept in Archivio di Stato, because your request is too general.
I know they can make the photocopy of the whole document, since there are many pages it would cost you a couple of hundred dollars, I tell you this because I asked som informations about having the photocopies of Catasto Onciario of Casacalenda for somebody else.
If you are not specific in your request, nobody at the Archivio di Stato is going to make for you a research page by page, this kind of document has also a handwritten style that only few people understand it, like our friend James Bianco,
If you want to get the copy from the real death record of your ancestor, follow the suggestions of nuccia: write a regular letter in italian, put it in an envelope, add to it a self addressed envelope + international reply coupon + 5 dollars, explain to the priest that IRC has to be changed to the Post Office into a new regualr stamp, and send it via regular mail, and let's cross fingers,
I hope it helps, bye Riccardo Mr. Green
I hope it helps
bye Riccardo

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MauroMags
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti? Reply with quote

Thanks to everyone for the advice

As for the parish request. I did send a check for $10 along with a letter written in italian. I thought i had in inside track because the patriarch of the church is actually a distant cousin of mine. I even sent him some photos of our shared ancestors, hoping to entice his interest because i've been told that he is a very busy man.

Ideally, a copy of the entire catasto would be amazing, since 90% of my ancestors come from Molfetta...but at a couple hundred dollars it may be out of my price range.

Has the LDS expressed any interest in filming the catasti? Wink If so, can you tell them to start with La Regione Puglia Mr. Green
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ricbru
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti? Reply with quote

MauroMags wrote:
Thanks to everyone for the advice

As for the parish request. I did send a check for $10 along with a letter written in italian. I thought i had in inside track because the patriarch of the church is actually a distant cousin of mine. I even sent him some photos of our shared ancestors, hoping to entice his interest because i've been told that he is a very busy man.

Ideally, a copy of the entire catasto would be amazing, since 90% of my ancestors come from Molfetta...but at a couple hundred dollars it may be out of my price range.

Has the LDS expressed any interest in filming the catasti? Wink If so, can you tell them to start with La Regione Puglia Mr. Green

Mauro,
sending a check means that when he is going to change it to the bank he has to pay half of it for the banck expenses. It happened to me the first time I had a client, so I was not able to cover my personal expenses for the research.
Next time I suggest you just to send a $ 10 bill, it is more easy.
I don't think there is any Catasto Onciario microfilmed by FHL
I hope it helps,
bye Riccardo

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasti? Reply with quote

So Mauro,

I guess its time to start writing that/those new letters and modifying the request.

If you need help with a simple request, lots of people here can help. Just write it in English and put it in the translation section and someone should help..again, keep it simple and specific.

Keep us posted! Very Happy

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MauroMags
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti? Reply with quote

What is this site all about? Are they reputable?

www.ricercagenealogica.it/index.htm
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MauroMags
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasti? Reply with quote

After reviewing some of my files, I'm sort of confident that the ancestor i'm looking for was named Michele Magarelli.

Now, is it unreasonable to request the archive at Bari to search the Molfetta catasti of 1759 and then send me a photocopy of all the "Michele Magarelli" entries?

And, would some kind soul on this board help me write a decent request in proper italian Embarassed

thanks,
Mauro
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MauroMags
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:19 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti? Reply with quote

trying to post...
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Cathy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti? Reply with quote

MauroMags wrote:
After reviewing some of my files, I'm sort of confident that the ancestor i'm looking for was named Michele Magarelli.

Now, is it unreasonable to request the archive at Bari to search the Molfetta catasti of 1759 and then send me a photocopy of all the "Michele Magarelli" entries?

And, would some kind soul on this board help me write a decent request in proper italian Embarassed

thanks,
Mauro
If you don't ask you'll never get it. On the other hand, don't get your hopes up too high. If you write your request in english on thee "Translation" board Carole, Simy or Riccardo will translate it for you.
I wish you luck with your request! Very Happy

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