Help translating document

tjbrn · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Help translating document

This birth document is the first handwritten one I've encountered. I am not certain of the child's name, Benedetto? Does he have a middle name?

img515.imageshack.us/i/nati2.jpg/

liviomoreno · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Help translating document

The child's name is Francesco, Benedetto, e Simone.

tjbrn · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Help translating document

The order is slightly different for the baptismal information. How should the full name be regarded, the ordering of names? Also how common is the name Simone? I've not encountered it before.

liviomoreno · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Help translating document

If I am not wrong when names are separated by a comma only the first one will be used in all id document. If they are not separated the given name is composed by all of them. In this case they are separated by a comma and therefore the given name is Francesco end the orde of the other two names is not significant. Very often the second and third names are given after the grandparents.

Simone is not very rare, I know three or four people with this name.

Luca · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Help translating document

tjbrn wrote:

http://img515.imageshack.us/i/nati2.jpg/

Here you are the tanscription of the handwriting:

Atto di nascita
Numero d'ordine 22
L'anno 1822 il di 21 del mese di marzo alle ore 24 avanti di noi Antonino Capizzi Sindaco ed ufficiale dello stato civile del Comune di Belmonte distretto di Palermo e Valle di Palo(!) è comparso Gaspare Dragotto di anni 46 di professione bordonese(!) domiciliato in questo Comune di Belmonte il quale ci ha presentato un bambino, secondo che abbiamo ocularmente riconosciuto, ed ha dichiarato che lo stesso è nato da Vincenza Martorana in Dragotto di anni 40 domiciliata in questo sudetto Comune e da detto Gaspare Dragotta di anni 46 di professione bordonaio domiciliato in questo sudetto Comune nel giorno 20 del mese di marzo anno 1821 all'ore 20 nella casa di sua propria abitazione esistente in questo sudetto Comune.
Lo stesso ha dichiarato inoltre di dare al bambino sudetto il nome di Francesco, Benedetto e Simone.
La presentazione e dichiarazione anzidetta si è fatta alla presenza di .... etc etc

Luca

tjbrn · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Help translating document

Thanks for all of the help.
Luca, did you see this post?

tjbrn wrote:

There are films from Belmonte listed as Allegati 1846, 1850, 1851, Matrimoni 1857, 1860-1865, Morti 1820-magg. 1839, Memorandum 1836-1865. The FHC is closed until next week so I can't order the films until then. I plan to review all of the Belmonte tapes eventually but it is always exciting to make discoveries sooner than later Very Happy

What is the distinction between processetti and allegati?

I have a few more images that I have questions about and will post them shortly.

The term bordonaio keeps turning up. Was he a teamster, as in one who drives a team of animals--horses, mules?

tjbrn · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Help translating document

Here is the same Francesco marrying for the second time.

img136.imageshack.us/i/mat1e.jpg/

The second page: img88.imageshack.us/i/mat2.jpg/

The third page: img143.imageshack.us/i/mat3v.jpg/

The bride's surname is difficult to read and I haven't quite gotten the knack of interpreting the supplemental information listed on pages 2 & 3. Just when I think I am getting better at this, I seem to backslide Embarassed

Is the church ever named in these documents?

Luca · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: Help translating document

tjbrn wrote:

What is the distinction between processetti and allegati?

Shortly: the "processetto" is the examination in front of the registrar about the willing of the Betrotheds, their free condition and full age and all the other things are requested by the law.
The "allegati" are all the documents that the groom and the bride must show to the registrar during their examination.

tjbrn wrote:

The term bordonaio keeps turning up. Was he a teamster, as in one who drives a team of animals--horses, mules?

I'm not sure about this term, sorry.

Luca · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Help translating document

tjbrn wrote:

Here is the same Francesco marrying for the second time.

img136.imageshack.us/i/mat1e.jpg/

The second page: img88.imageshack.us/i/mat2.jpg/

The third page: img143.imageshack.us/i/mat3v.jpg/

The bride's surname is difficult to read (maybe, Muzio) and I haven't quite gotten the knack of interpreting the supplemental information listed on pages 2 & 3. Just when I think I am getting better at this, I seem to backslide Embarassed

Is the church ever named in these documents?
In the first page, right side, there is the declaration of the priest that Francesco and Maria went married on April 10th

L.

joannsalvo · Mem Joined: Aug 23, 2008 Posts: 15

Hi Tom,
It's Joann.
I think the name is Lorello not Lovello.
I have Lorello in my family from Belmonte too.
Also, from an earlier post, the surname is probably Chinicci.

Take Care,
Joann

tjbrn · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Help translating document

Quote::

Is the church ever named in these documents?
In the first page, right side, there is the declaration of the priest that Francesco and Maria went married on April 10th

I mean the actual name of the church itself, which parish it is in, etc., so that one might conceivably attempt to get copies of the records from the church or, at the very least have something more specific to add to the family's history.

Luca · Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:52 am Post subject: Re: Help translating document

It says "Chiesa madrice" that stands for "mother church". I think it refers to the "Chiesa del Santissimo Crocifisso"

Parrocchia Santissimo Crocifisso
Piazza Garibaldi, 1
90031 Belmonte Mezzagno (PA)

tel:091 8729234 (Don Giuseppe Calderone)

L.

tjbrn · Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:46 am Post subject: Re: Help translating document

Thanks Luca. I thought that was mother church but had no idea to which church it might apply. I'll file away the information although until my Italian improves considerably I won't be ringing up Don Giuseppe any time soon Very Happy

tjbrn · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:50 am Post subject: Re: Help translating document

I was unable to decipher Grazia's father's occupation. Is his age listed as 35?
img193.imageshack.us/i/grazia.jpg/

Luca · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Help translating document

tjbrn wrote:

I was unable to decipher Grazia's father's occupation. Anch'io Confused

Is his age listed as 35? Si.

L.