x
Toggle Content Register or Login  -  August 23, 2017, 2:40 am
Toggle Content User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: seahel
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 1863

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 91
Total: 91
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: My Account
06: Stories Archive
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Statistics
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: My Account
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: My Account
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Photo Gallery
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: My Account
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: My Account
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Photo Gallery
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: My Account
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Photo Gallery
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Toggle Content Main Menu
Toggle Content Last Posts
Last 10 Forum Messages

PUGLIESE OR VALEO
Last post by Biff83 in Central Italy on Aug 05, 2017 at 20:14:08

PUGLIESE OR VALEO
Last post by Biff83 in Southern Italy on Aug 05, 2017 at 20:13:41

PUGLIESE OR VALEO
Last post by Biff83 in Northern Italy on Aug 05, 2017 at 01:30:23

Ambrogio Bianchi
Last post by debbiemfit in Central Italy on Jul 31, 2017 at 17:49:19

Gentile ,Mammola, Calabria
Last post by nuccia in Southern Italy on Jul 20, 2017 at 07:52:30

looking for manifest of Sabato Pizzano changed to Pisano
Last post by DaveFerro in Southern Italy on Jul 19, 2017 at 21:29:46

Looking for Vincenzo Contrera
Last post by Biff83 in Southern Italy on Jul 10, 2017 at 23:36:16

Locating info on my Italian cousin's death in WWII
Last post by charliemis in Southern Italy on Jul 09, 2017 at 04:06:05

Napolitano - Falzarano, Airola
Last post by goldfreaz in Southern Italy on Jun 15, 2017 at 01:29:50

How do we preserve our Genealogical research for the future?
Last post by nuccia in General Discussion Groups on Jun 14, 2017 at 23:36:52

Toggle Content Help Support this Site
Please support GentediMareGenealogy
Help us by supporting the future development of this site, or simply to say thank you.
Toggle Content EStore
Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Help translating document

     Forum FAQ   Search   Log in to check your private messages   Login  
Help translating document
For help with translating documents or writing letters.
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject: Help translating document Reply with quote

I am having trouble translating some of this document and hope someone will be able to help. I am unable to read Vencenza's surname or Gaetano La Rocca's wife's name. I believe Gaetano La Rocca is deceased. I am also uncertain of the ages and occupations listed. OK, I admit I need a lot of help with this Embarassed

img15.imageshack.us/im...at1832.jpg

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

L’anno 1832, il dì 6 del mese di Gennaio alle ore 23 [seguivano un calcolo delle ore non corrispondente a quello moderno, per cui non si tratta delle attuali 11 p.m.], avanti di noi Antonino Diliberto Sindaco ed Ufficiale dello Stato Civile del Comune di Belmonte, distretto di Palermo, valle di Palermo, sono comparsi nella casa comunale Ignazio Dragotto, di anni 24 nato in Belmonte, distretto di Palermo, valle di Palermo di professione contadino, domiciliato in Belmonte, figlio di Gaspare Dragotto di anni 50, di professione bordonaio, domiciliato in questo sudetto Comune, e di Vincenza Martorana di anni 46 domiciliata quivi, ed Andriana(!) La Rocca di anni 22, nata in Belmonte, domiciliata quivi, figlia del fu Gaetano La Rocca e di Marianna Ribaudo di anni 40, domiciliata quivi…


Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

Grazie, Luca. What is bordonaio? And I am curious about this: Andriana(!)

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
L’anno 1832, il dì 6 del mese di Gennaio alle ore 23 [seguivano un calcolo delle ore non corrispondente a quello moderno, per cui non si tratta delle attuali 11 p.m.], avanti di noi Antonino Diliberto Sindaco ed Ufficiale dello Stato Civile del Comune di Belmonte, distretto di Palermo, valle di Palermo, sono comparsi nella casa comunale Ignazio Dragotto, di anni 24 nato in Belmonte, distretto di Palermo, valle di Palermo di professione contadino, domiciliato in Belmonte, figlio di Gaspare Dragotto di anni 50, di professione bordonaio, domiciliato in questo sudetto Comune, e di Vincenza Martorana di anni 46 domiciliata quivi, ed Andriana(!) La Rocca di anni 22, nata in Belmonte, domiciliata quivi, figlia del fu Gaetano La Rocca e di Marianna Ribaudo di anni 40, domiciliata quivi…


Ciao
Luca



Translation

In the year of 1832, the 6th day of the month of January at the 23rd hour (here follows a calulation of the hour corresponding to modern time, and for that reason you are not dealing with the actual 11pm) before me Antonino Diliberto Mayor and State Registrar of the Comune of Belmonte, in the District of Palermo, Palermo valley there appeared in the town hall Ignazio Dragotto, aged 24 born in Belmonte, District of Palermo, Palermo valley son of Gaspare Dragotto aged 50 by professione fisherman**, resident in the above named Comune, and of Vincenza Martorana aged 46 resident here too, and Andriana(!) La Rocca aged 22, born in Belmonte, residente here as well, daughter of the late Gaetano La Rocca and of Marianna Ribaudo aged 40, also resident here...

**bordonaio=abbrev. of bordonario = fisherman


Carole

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<


Last edited by Carole on Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:24 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

Ottimo Carole. Nella traduzione hai però saltato un piccolissimo pezzo: "ed Andriana(!) La Rocca di anni 22, nata in Belmonte, domiciliata quivi," Wink

L.
Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:25 am    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
Ottimo Carole. Nella traduzione hai però saltato un piccolissimo pezzo: "ed Andriana(!) La Rocca di anni 22, nata in Belmonte, domiciliata quivi," Wink

L.

Ooops... sorry. Embarassed

Now corrected!

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

tjbrn wrote:
And I am curious about this: Andriana(!)
I'm not sure of the correct spelling of that name: maybe it's written Andreana and not Andriana. This a page in italian about the name: www.umbriain.it/nomi/andrea.htm

Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

Thanks Carole and Luca, as always you make a great team!

I found another document dated five years later.

img193.imageshack.us/i/1837id.jpg/

This leads one to believe that the first wife died. At least some of the ages seem to advance appropriately on the ones that I am able to read.

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

L’anno 1837, il dì 21 del mese di Gennaio alle ore 24 avanti di noi Agostino Ritti Sindaco ed Ufficiale dello Stato Civile del Comune di Belmonte, distretto di Palermo, valle di Palermo, sono comparsi nella casa comunale Ignazio Dragotto, di anni 28 nato in Belmonte, distretto di Palermo, valle di Palermo di professione contadino, domiciliato in Belmonte, figlio di Gaspare Dragotto di anni 55, di professione contadino, domiciliato in questo sudetto Comune, e di Vincenza Martorana in Dragotto di anni 50 domiciliata quivi, e Stefana di Paola di anni 20, nata in Belmonte, domiciliata quivi, figlia di Giovanni di Paola di anni 50 di professione contadino, domiciliato in questo comune, e della fu Felicia di Literno(!)...

If you have the films concerning the marriages in Belmonte of the years 1832-1836, then you can verify if Ignazio remarried in the meantime. As an alternative, you can check the death records to find if Andreana really died after that birth.

Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

I'm not sure about the word bordonaio. It doesn't seem to be fisherman but, maybe, "conduttore di muli" ( tlio.ovi.cnr.it/voci/006428.htm ) Confused

L.

edit to correct the link.


Last edited by Luca on Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:36 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

Luca, am I correct in assuming that these documents are only a promise to marry, a betrothal so without a marriage certificate to corroborate the event I cannot assume that the two who are betrothed ever married. At least they identify Ignazio's parents.

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
.. As an alternative, you can check the death records to find if Andreana really died after that birth.
Embarassed Sorry, i writed birth instead of marriage!!!

To reply to your question: no, it's not only a promise to marry, because on the right column it's said:

L'anno 1832, il dì 8 del mese di gennaio il parroco di questa chiesa matrice ci ha rimessa una delle copie della controscritta [= scritta accanto] promessa, in pié della quale [= in fondo alla quale] ha certificato che la celebrazione del matrimonio è seguita nel giorno 8 del mese di gennaio 1832 alla presenza dei testimoni

So the marriage took place in the day 8 of the same month of january 1832.

Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

Thanks, Luca. I'll begin searching to see if the records you mentioned are available. Meanwhile, I have a marriage document for Ignazio sister, Gaetana--that was my mother's name as well. I believe the groom's name is Mazzola but I cannot decipher his given name and I am also uncertain of his mother's name. I am also curious about the way the wife's name is listed on some of these documents, for example: Saveria Chi!!! in Mazzola

img233.imageshack.us/i...gotto.jpg/

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

tjbrn wrote:
... but I cannot decipher his given name
So do I Rolling Eyes

and I am also uncertain of his mother's name.
Maybe, Saveria [or Rosaria... but i think you are right: Saveria] Chinnici in Mazzola

I am also curious about the way the wife's name is listed on some of these documents, for example: Saveria Chi!!! in Mazzola
It's only a way to say that she was the "legal" wife of Gaetano, and that his son was not born "out of marriage"

Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

The following marriage document of Nicolo Dragotto and Teresa Italiano contains considerable information in the script at the bottom of the document which I don't understand. I am also having difficulty with Teresa Italiano's mother's surname.

I'm sorry to be such a bother but I have launched back into my genealogy efforts with renewed interest after a rather long period of inactivity and while I am am to translate marginally better, I still cannot decipher the handwriting with any consistency.

img253.imageshack.us/i...iager.jpg/

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
  Page 1 of 8All times are GMT - 4 Hours

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

  
 
Jump to:  



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Hosted By Site5.com
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of Gente di Mare Genealogy.
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the opinions of the poster.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy
TCD_ItalianGene © Gente di Mare Genealogy