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Cache of letters
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Carole
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
In giornata mi occuperò di pag. 3 e 4

Luca
Thanks Luca....that's very kind.

Grazie mille... come sei gentile kiss

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

I find these letters fascinating! Tom, you are so lucky to have them! Thank you Carole, Luca and Livio for your work at translating them. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Sorry I took so long Tom - it's been 'one of those days' today...but here is my best effort for pages 1 & 2 for you... If there are any glaring errors I'm sure Luc or Livio will point out the correct words that I may have misunderstood from the dialect...

Page 1
14 May 1935
My dearest brother,
Just today I received one of your letters in which I was pleased to hear of your good health as that of your wife and your dear children; also the family of your xxxxx is the same today and I can assure you also Tani and my wife and my children as indeed the family of your sister-in- law Carmela, beloved brother you cannot imagine how content my heart is to receive your news, and in this way I am writing to you today to let you see my sincerity, that reaffirms that I have arrived from the country and immediately found your news and this evening I have written to you, see if your brother is one of those who still thinks of his beloved brother Ignazio who makes me (a dove?) and wan't me to see your presence dear brother......
brother-in-law dear your heart is like a xxx, like a little swallow (bird), but who knows if sometime the true heart is our choir (?)......

written in margin at the top: and good evening - kisses.

Page 2
.... and I would like to know (meet) this dear sister-in-law, but who knows if some time God will make this favour, enough dear brother I cannot prolong these wishes, because it is late and I am going to bed, indeed like your sister-in-law as soon as I started to read the letter she made this ticket and so I made you (?) your news and so I wrote to you immediatley and I do so paying much attention to what you tell me, and your desire, dearest brother, regarding that which you told me I understand it all very well, that you find yourself in the country but I am sorry to hear tht the Italians your are alone; I get another pain to the heart to hear that if God frees this season to allow the arrival of your dreams, many in the city, yes brother you are right in everything you tell me that even here in Italy we are as San Giuseppe wishes

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Last edited by Carole on Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Luca
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Page1
img441.imageshack.us/i...ge1bs9.jpg

.... e perciò, caro fratello, bisogna fare la volontà di Dio, e capire che in Italia non si può più campare, che certe sere andiamo a letto digiuni e i miei poveri figli piangono per la fame; ho 6 figli e [INTERPRETO perchè il pensiero non è chiaro] mi manca solo di dare la mia vita per sfamare i miei poveri figli, che tua cognata Carmela certi giorni mi vede e si mette a ridere(!), ciò che faccio per questi miei figli, per sfamarli; hai capito, caro fratello, qual'è la situazione? Ma devo accontentarmi soltanto di quello che mi dà Gesu Cristo?
Ti posso dire che con tua cognata Carmela siamo come fratello e sorella e ti rassicuro riguardo suo figlio, caro e amato fratello, stai tranquillo; per quello che riguarda, invece, la figlia femmina, Mattia, è un po' ammalata ma si spera che possa guarire presto e state tranquilli che vi assicuro di tenervi informati...

Page2
img175.imageshack.us/i...ge2cd2.jpg

... amato fratello, riguardo a quella conoscenza di cui ti ho parlato; tu mi dici che conosci tutti, mentre io non posso conoscere (vedere?) te che sei come una colomba bianca [ forse intende dire che è una persona per bene, onesta], che così sei, amato fratello, bianco [onesto, buono ?], che mi si strugge il cuore all'idea di poterti rivedere, è il nostro stesso sangue [l'amore fraterno, consanguineo] che mi spinge a volerti rivedere; compirò 42 anni il 26 Maggio, ma per i troppi affani sono come mi vedi [forse gli ha spedito una fotografia]; ma non fa niente perché sto bene, e quando c'è la salute c'è tutto! Ma chissà, caro fratello, se qualche volta riusciremo a venire in America? Forse se diminuissero i prezzi dei viaggi oppure se guadagnassi più soldi, come una volta! Non mi resta altro da dirti, ti bacio insieme a tutta la mia famiglia, tanti saluti anche alla famiglia di tua suocera, tanti saluti da parte di tua cognata Carmela, tanti saluti da tutte le (nostre) sorelle, bacio te e la tua sposa, i miei figli mandano un bacio ai loro cugini, ti bacio io, tuo fratello, Tano. Addio (ciao) che adesso si fa notte, fratello amato,

upside down (a part is on page 1 and the other part on page 4): (1) cognata cara il tuo cuore è come una colo(4)mba sincera, ma il nome di vostro cognato Tano è (1) come una rondinella ( Shocked ); ma chissà se qualche (4) volta verrò alla vostra presenza? (cioè: potrò venire in America a trovarvi?) Io vi bacio (1) di vero cuore il vostro caro (4) cognato Tano. Addio (buonanotte) che ho sonno ( Very Happy ) Addio

Wink
Luca

Just a note: I didn't give a real word by word transcription, but sometime I made a few correction to make the letter understandable.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Spero di dare la giusta interpretazione:

Carole wrote:
Sorry I took so long Tom - it's been 'one of those days' today...but here is my best effort for pages 1 & 2 for you... If there are any glaring errors I'm sure Luc or Livio will point out the correct words that I may have misunderstood from the dialect...

Page 1
14 May 1935
My dearest brother,
Just today I received one of your letters in which I was pleased to hear of your good health as that of your wife and your dear children; also the family of your suocera (mother in law) is the same today and I can assure you that me and my wife and my children as indeed the family of your sister-in- law Carmela, beloved brother you cannot imagine how content our heart is to receive your news, and in this way I am writing to you today to let you see my sincerity, that reaffirms that I have arrived from the country and immediately found your news and this evening I have written to you, see if your brother is one of those who still thinks of his beloved brother Ignazio who makes me a dove [you was right: it is really a dove Shocked ] and wan't me to see your presence dear brother......

brother-in-law dear your heart is like a xxx, like a little swallow (bird), but who knows if sometime the true heart is our choir (?)......
written in margin at the top: and good evening - kisses.

[See note of page 4]


Ciao
Luca
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Carole
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
Page1
img441.imageshack.us/i...ge1bs9.jpg

.... e perciò, caro fratello, bisogna fare la volontà di Dio, e capire che in Italia non si può più campare, che certe sere andiamo a letto digiuni e i miei poveri figli piangono per la fame; ho 6 figli e [INTERPRETO perchè il pensiero non è chiaro] mi manca solo di dare la mia vita per sfamare i miei poveri figli, che tua cognata Carmela certi giorni mi vede e si mette a ridere(!), ciò che faccio per questi miei figli, per sfamarli; hai capito, caro fratello, qual'è la situazione? Ma devo accontentarmi soltanto di quello che mi dà Gesu Cristo?
Ti posso dire che con tua cognata Carmela siamo come fratello e sorella e ti rassicuro riguardo suo figlio, caro e amato fratello, stai tranquillo; per quello che riguarda, invece, la figlia femmina, Mattia, è un po' ammalata ma si spera che possa guarire presto e state tranquilli che vi assicuro di tenervi informati...

Page2
img175.imageshack.us/i...ge2cd2.jpg

... amato fratello, riguardo a quella conoscenza di cui ti ho parlato; tu mi dici che conosci tutti, mentre io non posso conoscere (vedere?) te che sei come una colomba bianca [ forse intende dire che è una persona per bene, onesta], che così sei, amato fratello, bianco [onesto, buono ?], che mi si strugge il cuore all'idea di poterti rivedere, è il nostro stesso sangue [l'amore fraterno, consanguineo] che mi spinge a volerti rivedere; compirò 42 anni il 26 Maggio, ma per i troppi affani sono come mi vedi [forse gli ha spedito una fotografia]; ma non fa niente perché sto bene, e quando c'è la salute c'è tutto! Ma chissà, caro fratello, se qualche volta riusciremo a venire in America? Forse se diminuissero i prezzi dei viaggi oppure se guadagnassi più soldi, come una volta! Non mi resta altro da dirti, ti bacio insieme a tutta la mia famiglia, tanti saluti anche alla famiglia di tua suocera, tanti saluti da parte di tua cognata Carmela, tanti saluti da tutte le (nostre) sorelle, bacio te e la tua sposa, i miei figli mandano un bacio ai loro cugini, ti bacio io, tuo fratello, Tano. Addio (ciao) che adesso si fa notte, fratello amato,

upside down (a part is on page 1 and the other part on page 4): (1) cognata cara il tuo cuore è come una colo(4)mba sincera, ma il nome di vostro cognato Tano è (1) come una rondinella ( Shocked ); ma chissà se qualche (4) volta verrò alla vostra presenza? (cioè: potrò venire in America a trovarvi?) Io vi bacio (1) di vero cuore il vostro caro (4) cognato Tano. Addio (buonanotte) che ho sonno ( Very Happy ) Addio

Wink
Luca

Just a note: I didn't give a real word by word transcription, but sometime I made a few correction to make the letter understandable.

I'll translate these two probably tomorrow late afternoon - unless someone does them before I get back home...
Carole

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

I do truly appreciate all of the work involved in translating these letters. My own work yields at best a rough overview so it is sheer pleasure for me to enjoy the richness you add to these humble exchanges. I would love to be able to read my grandfather's letter to his brother just to add context to his brother's responses.

Thanks once again.

Tom
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:53 am    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

The last two pages Tom.... so very sad. I must admit they made me cry a bit!

Page 3
and so dear brother, we must do God's will, and understand that in Italy you can't survive, there are some evenings we go to bed without eating and my poor children cry from hunger; I have 6 children (interpreted because the thought was not clear) and I miss only to be able to give my life to take away my poor children's hunger, your sister-in-law Carmela sees me and starts to laugh (!), what can I do for these children of mine to feed them; you understand, dear brother, what the situation is? But must I content myself with what Jesus Christ gives me?
I can tell you that with your sister-in-law Carmela we are like brother and sister and I assure your regarding your son, dear and beloved brother, don't worry; for that which regards the girl child (daughter?) Mattia, she is a little unwell but we hope she will get better soon so don't worry I assure you I will keep you informed....


Page 4
...dear brother, regarding that conscience that I spoke about; you tell me that you know everyone, when I can't know (see?) you like a white dove (perhaps he means a good honest person), that this way you are, dearest brother, white (honest, good?) it breaks my heart the idea that I could see you again, and our same blood (brotherly love, kinship) that pushes me to want to see you again; I will be 42 years old on 26 May, but for the many worries I am as you see me (perhaps he sent a photo); but it's not important because I'm well, and when you have your health you have everything! But who knows, dear brother, if sometime we will be able to come to America? Perhaps if the price of the journey goes down or if I could earn some money, like I once did! There's nothing more to tell you, I kiss you together with all my family, many wishes to your mother-in-laws family too, many wishes from your sister-in-law Carmela, many wishes from all (our) sisters, a kiss for you and your bride, my children send a kiss to their cousins, I kiss you, your brother Tano. Goodbye (ciao) it is now nightime, beloved brother



upside down (a part is on page 1 and the other part on page 4):
dear sister-in-law your heart is sincerely like a dove, but the name of your brother-in law Tano is like a swallow; but who knows if some time I will be with you? (that is 'visit you in America') I kiss you from my heart your dear cousin Tano. Goodbye (goodnight) I am tired Goodbye

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Last edited by Carole on Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

The reference to white may be quite literal here as my grandfather had a wonder shock of hair, which had turned completely white by the time he was 28 years old--well before the exchange of these letters. On this side of the ocean (US) the family was also working very hard, working on farms in rural south Jersey, Handcocks Bridge, NJ, to be specific. A letter written by my uncle to my grandmother on 3 Jan 1936 relates that it is so cold their cat froze to death, it was too wet for them to work, and they (my grandfather and his three sons) went to bed at 8 PM New Years Eve. The letter contains references to a man who came to collect $2.15 from my grandfather suggesting perhaps, the "Padrone" system I have read about elsewhere. This 1936 letter is the first confirmation I have of the family using a fabricated, less Italian sounding (to their ears at least) name, Degrotto, in order to have a better opportunity to secure work. The mention of the little girl and boy could refer to some of the children who died--family tales vary on the number of pregnancies my grandmother had, perhaps as many as 12, although only 7 survived. Lastly, I believe that my grandfather was the only member of his family to emigrate to America; however, the Carmela mentioned in these letters may be my grandmother's oldest sister, who actually emigrated to America when my grandmother did. Again family lore indicates some members of the family did not stay long in America and returned to Italy. It is very likely Carmela returned to Belmonte as her father Salvatore Monte was born in Belmonte, a fact I just recently learned from documents I received from San Giuseppe and Belmonte last week. A November 1935 letter is already posted so I'll wait awhile before I post another letter.
I can't thank you enough for the gift you have given me and my family.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

I'm sure I speak for the others who have all chipped in to help with these first letters Tom, when I say that that their content has produced mixed reactions.

To read of the joy of a man in reading of and writing to his brother and family and then to read of children going to bed in tears because they were hungry was so poignant and at times painful just to read. These are not the times of the enormous poverty in Europe of the 1800's but the end of the first third of the 20th century! Such sad times for this family who through trying to eliminate some economic hardships found themselves separated from their loved ones and alone!

I await with baited breath to seeing the next letters from this loving family!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Hi Tom,

You're so lucky to have such treasures. I, like Carole, can't wait for you post more letters.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

June 1932

Page1
img230.imageshack.us/i...ge1ag2.jpg

Page2
img262.imageshack.us/i...ge2ln0.jpg

Page3
img388.imageshack.us/i...ge3jj3.jpg

Page4
img101.imageshack.us/i...ge4ay0.jpg
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

tjbrn wrote:
27 Nov 1935

Page1
img267.imageshack.us/i...ge1mm9.jpg

Page2
img178.imageshack.us/i...ge2sh4.jpg

Page3
img201.imageshack.us/i...ge3dq9.jpg

Page4
img72.imageshack.us/im...ge4wf5.jpg

If I should post these differently, please let me know and I will try to do so.

Tom

Credo ci siano ancora queste lettere da completare. Mi occupo della 1 e della 2 (se posso stasera o al massimo domani).
Only a question for Tom: are you Rita's (tiger965) cousin?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

tjbrn wrote:
June 1932

Page1
img230.imageshack.us/i...ge1ag2.jpg

Page2
img262.imageshack.us/i...ge2ln0.jpg

Page3
img388.imageshack.us/i...ge3jj3.jpg

Page4
img101.imageshack.us/i...ge4ay0.jpg

It would be useful if you 'edit and post' the first three of these in the same way as your previous letters. Once opened they can then be enlarged to a size that is easily readable. The first three can't be increased in size - the fourth is fine.

Sorry, but my eyes 'ain't what they used to be'!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Once you click on the link, you can click on the letter and it increases automatically. My eyes are ok..but my translations aren't so I'll wait for you all to continue. I love reading the translations.

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