x
Toggle Content Register or Login  -  November 23, 2024, 8:02 am
Toggle Content User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: LucilleDZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 2016

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 21
Total: 21
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: My Account
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: My Account
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Toggle Content Main Menu
Toggle Content Last Posts
Last 10 Forum Messages

translation help needed please
Last post by yesindd in Translations on Jul 15, 2024 at 20:59:53

bocca
Last post by tennino in General Discussion Groups on Jan 16, 2021 at 15:56:41

Towns in Frosinone that were part of former Vatican States a
Last post by Italysearcher in Central Italy on Feb 19, 2019 at 08:15:58

Dual Citizenship
Last post by Curci-Ghio in General Discussion Groups on Nov 18, 2018 at 14:30:54

Please Help Translate Letter
Last post by nuccia in Translations on Oct 20, 2018 at 06:18:43

Family in Cittanova
Last post by russojoseph1 in Translations on Oct 14, 2018 at 12:28:20

DNA Testing
Last post by nuccia in General Discussion Groups on Sep 29, 2018 at 10:39:30

Trento -Atto di Nascita - Frazione di Poia, Comune di Comano
Last post by exevans in Northern Italy on Mar 28, 2018 at 00:45:37

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 12:58:50

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 12:53:38

Toggle Content Help Support this Site
Please support GentediMareGenealogy
Help us by supporting the future development of this site, or simply to say thank you.
Toggle Content EStore
Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Help translating document

     Forum FAQ   Search   Log in to check your private messages   Login  
Help translating document
For help with translating documents or writing letters.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

Quite hard to read Confused
Last lines:
"Il documento presentato è il certificato delle eseguite pubblicazioni di matrimonio rilasciato da me ufficiale dello stato civile in data di oggi stesso ... gli sposi hanno dichiarato che dalla loro unione naturale sono nati 3 figli denunciati a questo ufficio di stato civile la prima col nome di Dragotta Grazia addì 2(?) Maggio 1886, il secondo col nome di Dragotta Ignazio addì 14 ottobre(?) 1889 e il terzo col nome di Dragotta xxx addì 16 febbraio 1895(?) e che mediante questo atto di matrimonio li riconoscono per loro figli legittimi agli effetti di legge.
Letto il presente atto a tutti gli intervenuti è stato sottoscritto meno dagli sposi perché analfabeti."


Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

Thanks, Luca. I don't know how you do it!

Could the third child's name be Benedetto? Also I can make out Rosaria as Teresa Italiano's mother's given name but I can't seem to get the surname.

And I am assuming that the children belong to Nicolo and Teresa. Was this a common practice to add such information to a marriage document later?

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

tjbrn wrote:
Could the third child's name be Benedetto? Ok.

Also I can make out Rosaria (Ok) as Teresa Italiano's mother's given name but I can't seem to get the surname (maybe Agiola)

And I am assuming that the children belong to Nicolo and Teresa. (Yes) Was this a common practice to add such information to a marriage document later? Only when, such in this case, the parents were not married at the time of the child's birth. Or better: they were surely married, but only with a religious rite, and for the State their children were illegitimate. So, at the moment of the civil marriage, they declared to recogize the already born children like their legitimate and natural sons. This situation took place until 1929, when were signed the "patti lateranensi": after that date the religious marriage had also a civil value.
Luca

Sorry for my crummy english.
Back to top
View user's profile
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

No, Luca, I am the one who should apologize for his poor language skills. Your contributions are quite valuable and greatly appreciated.
Is this document dated 2 Feb 1895? It seems the religious ceremony took place prior to 1886. Was the date of the religious rite ever included somewhere in the civil document?

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
uantiti
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Nov 28, 2008
Posts: 356
Location: Biella (Piedmont) and Venezia/Venice, Italy

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:42 am    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

tjbrn wrote:
I believe the groom's name is Mazzola but I cannot decipher his given name ....

Could be "Gervaso or Gervasio", to me.

Ada

_________________
Researching: Agazzone, Beretta, Bertona, Carbonati, Castelletta, Ferrari, Gallo, Guglielmetti, Marchini, Mascagni, Nicolazzi, Nobile, Rossi, Sacco, Tosone - gone to USA from Bogogno, province of Novara, Piedmont, Italy.
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:42 am    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

uantiti wrote:
Could be "Gervaso or Gervasio", to me.

Ada
It could be, but if you look at the "G" of the name Gaetano it looks quite different. I thought at Anestasio too, but i'm not sure.

tjbrn wrote:
Was the date of the religious rite ever included somewhere in the civil document?
Not at all.

L.
Back to top
View user's profile
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

My films came in at my local FHC and I happened upon a few interesting documents. I think it was a pretty good day. This birth announcement is slightly different than others I've seen. Was the child healthy?

img132.imageshack.us/i/img020x.jpg/

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

tjbrn wrote:
...Was the child healthy?
Nothing is said, in the act, about the health conditions of Gaetano.

L.
Back to top
View user's profile
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

Thanks, Luca. I couldn't understand the word following "bambino" near the end of the document. And this seems to confirm that Ignazio did have children with his earlier wife Andreanna.

I have questions on additional documents that I'll post later.

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:02 am    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

tjbrn wrote:
...I couldn't understand the word following "bambino" near the end of the document...

... bambino suddetto (above-mentioned).
The first name of the mother could be Andreana (with only a "n"); in the left column it seems written "Andriana", but i think that Andreana can be the right form.

L.
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:53 am    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

Luca wrote:


... bambino suddetto (above-mentioned).


L.

... bambino predetto (before-mentioned).

Rolling Eyes

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

img515.imageshack.us/i/ignazio.jpg/

Did the marriage take place on Christmas? I can't make out the notations in the left margin and the phrase after Ignazio's name following the word Comunale. Also the "foglio" notations on the right side of the document, do they refer to the church records or the Civil records?

This second page of the document is difficult, especially the writing in the upper left.

img515.imageshack.us/i...azio2.jpg/

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

liviomoreno wrote:
Luca wrote:


... bambino suddetto (above-mentioned).


L.

... bambino predetto (before-mentioned).

Rolling Eyes
Questa volta non sono d'accordo con te, Livio: per me c'è scritto proprio sudetto (con una d sola, com'era usanza allora, anche se io l'ho scritto con due secondo l'ortografia corrente) Wink

L.
Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

I can't read the annotations in the left margin, but the left column says they appeared before the mayor at the 24th hour on the twenty fourth of December.

The right hand column seems to be the priest confirming that he married them on the 25th December - so a Christmas Day wedding.

(my maternal grandmother was married on Christmas Day too - but in 1911)

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Help translating document Reply with quote

img515.imageshack.us/i/ignazio.jpg/
I will leave it to Luca who's eye and expertise are much better than mine, however I believe that the annotation on the left margins says that Ignazio Dragotto was the widower of Stefania di Paola (?)

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
  Page 2 of 8All times are GMT - 4 Hours

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

  
 
Jump to:  



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Hosted By Site5.com
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of Gente di Mare Genealogy.
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the opinions of the poster.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy
TCD_ItalianGene © Gente di Mare Genealogy