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BillieDeKid V.I.P.
Joined: Oct 26, 2007 Posts: 1221 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Help with translation |
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Just a question for Luca. I pulled both documents up at the same time to compare them and although one is 1791 and the other 1807 the wording after each date is somewhat different....is there any significant difference in the wording that might give a clue to why there are two documents?
Is it possible there was some sort of event and the same information was registered on two different dates?
I had a situation with my grandfathers birth record with him being born in 1889 and it was registered then but got registered again in 1907/08 when he was eligible for the military.
Just a thought
_________________ Elizabeth
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Luca Translator
Joined: Jan 22, 2008 Posts: 695 Location: Terni - Italy
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:29 am Post subject: Re: Help with translation |
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tjbrn Explorer
Joined: Jan 24, 2008 Posts: 487 Location: North Carolina
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Luca Translator
Joined: Jan 22, 2008 Posts: 695 Location: Terni - Italy
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation |
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E' tutto molto confuso:
- Giuseppe è nato nel 1787 (abbiamo la trascrizione dell'atto di battesimo) quindi nel 1833 dovrebbe avere 46 anni ma la registrazione del battesimo del figlio ne riporta 48 (e quasi ci siamo), nel suo atto di morte del 1848, in cui dovrebbe avere 61 anni, ne sono riportati 52, e infine quando si sposa in seconde nozze nel 1841, e dovrebbe avere 54 anni, ne sono scritti addirittura 34 ( )
- Mattia muore nel 1839 e si dice che abbia 35 anni (quindi nata nel 1804), ma nel 1833, quando nasce il figlio, si dice che ha 38 anni (quindi nata nel 1795)
- poi c'è sempre quel documento che cita l'anno 1807 e che riporta l'estratto del suo battesimo (documento che si produceva solo in caso di matrimonio!)
I dubbi, purtroppo, restano.
L.
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tjbrn Explorer
Joined: Jan 24, 2008 Posts: 487 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation |
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Luca, after more searching of the records I have I believe that it is possible that Mattia was the first wife. I found a birth record dated 1820.
img138.imageshack.us/i...ariaca.jpg
And one from 1833 in which Mattia's age is listed as 38 and Giuseppe's is 48, I believe.
img34.imageshack.us/im...alvado.jpg
It seems that the ages listed on these documents are suspect, especially since illiteracy was so prevalent at the time. Of course this is just speculation until Mattia's birth record is found.
_________________ Tom
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Luca Translator
Joined: Jan 22, 2008 Posts: 695 Location: Terni - Italy
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation |
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Le soluzioni sono due:
1) Non è lo stesso Giuseppe Licata
2) Quella del 1841 non è la seconda moglie, ma la terza!!!
L.
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tjbrn Explorer
Joined: Jan 24, 2008 Posts: 487 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation |
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Luca, your comment regarding Giuseppe's first wife prompted me to search through the documents I have collected. Since I photograph everything that might be relevant to my research, I may have photos of documents that I may not review whenever I make new discoveries. This death document appears to be for Giuseppe Licata's first wife although the age of the deceased which is listed can't be correct if the first marriage occurred in 1807.
img163.imageshack.us/i...attiaa.jpg
I also reviewed the allegati of 1841 and found the extract of the above document.
img33.imageshack.us/im...g4881c.jpg
It would help if I could find Mattia's birth or baptismal record.
_________________ Tom
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Luca Translator
Joined: Jan 22, 2008 Posts: 695 Location: Terni - Italy
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:25 am Post subject: Re: Help with translation |
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BillieDeKid wrote: |
Tom he put a question mark by it on his first translation because he couldn't read it clearly (I believe) and he later corrects the date to be 1841. |
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BillieDeKid V.I.P.
Joined: Oct 26, 2007 Posts: 1221 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation |
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I have the same problem with the allegati and processetti records too Tom.....missing information.
_________________ Elizabeth
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tjbrn Explorer
Joined: Jan 24, 2008 Posts: 487 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation |
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Thanks, Elizabeth, I overlooked the "not 1821 but 1841". I hope I can find a trace of the first wife but the allegati are not always as complete as I had hoped they would be.
_________________ Tom
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BillieDeKid V.I.P.
Joined: Oct 26, 2007 Posts: 1221 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation |
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Tom he put a question mark by it on his first translation because he couldn't read it clearly (I believe) and he later corrects the date to be 1841.
_________________ Elizabeth
Brognaturo On Line
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tjbrn Explorer
Joined: Jan 24, 2008 Posts: 487 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation |
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I didn't see one Luca, but I'll check again on Tue when I go back to the Family History Center to review microfilm. You mentioned an 1821 date, I didn't understand what that referred to.
_________________ Tom
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Luca Translator
Joined: Jan 22, 2008 Posts: 695 Location: Terni - Italy
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation |
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Allora tutto fila: la data non è 12 luglio 1821 ma 1841 ed è il documento che attesta il battesimo di Giuseppe desunto, però, non direttamente dal registro dei battesimi ma dalla documentazione allegata al processetto relativo al primo matrimonio di Giuseppe stesso (quello celebrato nel 1807). Tra le carte del processetto del 1841 dovresti aver trovato anche il certificato che attesta la morte della prima moglie, o sbaglio?
L.
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tjbrn Explorer
Joined: Jan 24, 2008 Posts: 487 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation |
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Thanks, Luca. Giuseppe Licata may have married around that 1807 but I don't have any documents to corroborate that--too early for the LDS records. I do have Giuseppe's death certificate - 1848
img132.imageshack.us/i...iusepp.jpg
And a marriage certificate in 1841
img156.imageshack.us/i...tegius.jpg
Aside from the confusion on the birth date many of the other facts seem to fall in order. I have the allegati for the marriage in 1841 and there is one document which refers to both bride and groom as having been previously married so it is possible.
img101.imageshack.us/i...g4883p.jpg
_________________ Tom
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Luca Translator
Joined: Jan 22, 2008 Posts: 695 Location: Terni - Italy
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