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Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › What is this an extract of?

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What is this an extract of?
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Cathy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:50 pm    Post subject: What is this an extract of? Reply with quote

I have often wondered what the documents I found with processetti documents were for Filippo Garrafa. Since the weather has prevented me from going to my FHC, I have been working on webpages. Since new cousins found me I decided to do a webpage on one of her ancestors and saw the extract documents again. They really caught my eye this time because the name of a man on this document (Costantino Chimenti). His children married several of my family members and seems like a key player with many of the families of Montalto Uffugo. Now my curiosity is really peaked! I do not need a translation (this extract document is 3 pages long!) but I would like to know what this document is an extract of. I do not understand the title at the top (except for the word extract). Can anyone tell me what this document is an extract of? Or perhaps what is it's purpose? I have linked all 3 pages below in case all 3 are needed as a reference. I know everyone in this document and it may be important.
Thanks! Very Happy

PAGE 1
PAGE 2
PAGE 3

Ammended to add:
I beleive Costantino Chimenti the man mentioned at the beginning of this document was the guardian of the bride Maria Stella Speranza. Does this document indicate that?

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uantiti
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: What is this an extract of? Reply with quote

These are the minutes of a family council of which was given an extract conformed to the original to the guardian of the bride who was orphan and had to present 3 relatives on her father side and 3 on her mther side. They had to discuss about the convenience or not of this marriage. They agreed it was a good marriage and the groom could suppot the family.
Sorry I cannot understand the words on the top after Estratto dell'originale...
Let me know if you need a more detailed explanation on all what's written.

Ada
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Luca
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: What is this an extract of? Reply with quote

Estratto dell'originale esistente nella Cancelleria del Giudicato regio di Montalto.

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Cathy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: What is this an extract of? Reply with quote

party Thanks!! This is what I thought but I was not sure. I knew she was an orphan but I was not sure about the document. So the guardian of the bride was Costantino Chimenti (the first person mentioned)? So many mothers and fathers died young and I always wonder who took their children in and why some of these families seem so close.

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Cathy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: What is this an extract of? Reply with quote

uantiti wrote:
These are the minutes of a family council of which was given an extract conformed to the original to the guardian of the bride who was orphan and had to present 3 relatives on her father side and 3 on her mther side. They had to discuss about the convenience or not of this marriage. They agreed it was a good marriage and the groom could suppot the family.
Sorry I cannot understand the words on the top after Estratto dell'originale...
Let me know if you need a more detailed explanation on all what's written.

Ada
Ada...that is fascinating! Was this law? I should pay more attention to these documents. Since they are all handwritten and I don't understand them I tend to ignore these. If this was required I should be able to learn more about who took which orphaned children in. I guess this is so important to me because my own grandfather became an orphan around age 10. We knew who took him in (the nephew of this groom) but it gives important information on relationships. This is the type of information that typically gets lost to time.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: What is this an extract of? Reply with quote

Cathy,
both male and female needed the parents consent to get married if they were minor (I believe at that time a minor was someone below 21 years of age). In case they were orphan they needed the nearest relative consent (grandparents, etc.) or a family council was held to determine the convenience of such marriage. There is a law mentioned in these minutes. Don't have time to look at now. Will do it later or Luca might tell you, he knows for sure.


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Luca
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: What is this an extract of? Reply with quote

It seems art 174 L.L. Civile, maybe the Civil Code of that time, but i don't know if there is on-line the relative text!
Actually the art. 174 is annulled, but i don't think there was correspondence between the code of 1945 and that of 1857.

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Cathy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: What is this an extract of? Reply with quote

Thank you both! kiss All her parents and her grandparents were dead at the time of this marriage so the family council makes sense since she was only 15 or 16. It would have assured her best interests were considered seriously. I learned something again! Very Happy I am just happy that this document provides her guardians name so now I know who took her and her sisters in when their parents died. I am hoping I can find more of these for other family members!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: What is this an extract of? Reply with quote

This is and old Italian Civil Code.
On page 98 you can see what the law provided for marriage consent.
It's in Italian but I assume you can understand.
On page 97 you can see that men under 25 needed the parents approval while for women the age was 21 (Articolo 63)
In case of disagrement between an ancestor(man) and an ancestor(woman), they only needed the ancestor(man)' consent (Articolo 64)..... women weren't much taken into consideration! Shocked

page 98

Ada
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Cathy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: What is this an extract of? Reply with quote

Ada, thank you. My knowledge of the Italian language is very limited but I get the idea. I noticed a long time ago that women did not count when it came to the records. The only women mentioned in the documents who bore witness were the midwives. I find it rather funny that the word of a man would be trusted over that of a woman especially since many of these men lied about their ages by as much as 10 years! Shocked And they say we are vain! Wink

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