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Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act

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Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act
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Luca
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

nuccia wrote:
Teresa Aurelia 1747?
img706.imageshack.us/i...c06911.jpg
Teresa Aurelia Napolitano, born 1747 October 27th, parents Arcangelo and Rosa Scarlato.

Pietro
img710.imageshack.us/i...c06918.jpg
Pietro Napolitano, 1749 November 7th, parents Arcangelo and Rosa Scarlato.

Vincenzo Antonio
img709.imageshack.us/i...06926u.jpg
Vincenzo Antonio Napolitano, born 1751 November 26th, parents Arcangelo and Rosa Scarlato.
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nuccia
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

Thank you Luca! This is great. Yes, Bruno is my ancestor and no - I can not read ANY of it. Latin may as well be Greek to me! Can you please help when you have time? Thanks so much! Smile

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:40 am    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
Caterina Crivaro is Domenico's wife (not Arcangelo's).

www.montaltouffugo.org...nto/02.jpg

Certifico io qui sotto Par(roc)o di S. Fili, e vice ab(at)e(?) di S. Sisto (not S. Paolo)
qualm(ent)e avendo perquisito i libri di morte della Ca-
stagna, ho trovato la particola seguente:
A(nno) D(omini) millesimo octing(entesi)mo die vero quarta m(ensi)s aprilis
in Villa [...] Dominicus Napolitano Catherinae Cri-
varo vir aet(ati)s suae an(norum) 35 circiter, omnibus susce-
ptis sacramentis in C(omunione) S(anctae) M(atris) E(cclesiae) animam Deo red-
didit. Eius corpus in hac Eccl(esi)a sepultum et ad
fidem_ Vincentius Stella Aeconumus Curatus.

(L'anno del Signore 1800, il giorno 4 di Aprile
nella Villa [...] Domenico Napolitano, marito di Caterina Crivaro
dell'età di anni 35 circa, ricevuti tutti
i sacramenti rese l'anima a Dio in comunione di Santa Madre Chiesa.
Il suo corpo in questa Chiesa sepolto e
in fede... Vincenzo Stella economo e curato.)

Onde in onor del vero ne ho estratto il p(rese)nte
sotto(scritto) e suggellato da servire per uso di mat(rimoni)o
S.M. della Castagna 20 Ott(obr)e 1821
Giuseppe can(onico) Caracciolo


L.
I am a little confused here. Domenico is the father of Arcangelo. This says he died at the age of 35 in 1800? His son Arcangelo died in 1772 at the age of 55? Am I misunderstanding?

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Luca
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

This is what the priest wrote!
Maybe he did confusion at the moment of the transcription from the original: you must check the death register to have confirmations.
By the way, are you sure that this Domenico was the father and not one of Arcangelo's sons? Looking at the documents Nuccia posted, i can see that there aren't sons in the period 1762-1768, that was the probable period for Domenico birth (if he was 35 in 1800 he did born in 1765!). Did you check well the "libro dei battesimi"? It's also probable that the family moved temporarily from San Fili to another village nearby. Only guesses...

L.
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Luca
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

img686.imageshack.us/i...06959b.jpg

Anno Domini Millesimo Septingentesimo sexagesimo, die vero decima m(ensi)s maii.
In Villa Sanctae Mariae vulgo La Castagna.
Ego subscriptus Aeconomus Curatus huius sacra(menta)lis Eccl(esi)ae sub titulo Sanctae Mariae ad
nives praedictae Villae, baptizzavi infantem die vera eiusdem natum ex Arcangelo
Napolitano, et Rosa scarlato coniugibus sup(ra)d(ict)ae Villae cui impositum est nomen
Brunus. Patrina fuit Angela Alfano q(uonda)m Octavii filia dictae Villae, et in fidem.
D. Phlippus Infugo Aeconomus Curatus m(anu propria).

L'anno del Signore 1760, il giorno 10 del mese di Maggio.
Nel paese di Santa Maria, volgarmente detto La Castagna.
Io sottoscritto economo curato di questa sacramentale chiesa con il titolo di Santa Maria della
neve del predetto paese, battezai un infante nato lo stesso giorno da Arcangelo
Napolitano e Rosa Scarlato coniugi del suddetto paese a cui fu imposto il nome di
Bruno. Madrina fu Angela Alfano figlia del fu Ottavio di detto paese, in fede.
Don Filippo Infugo economo e curato di propria mano.


L.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

Thank you Luca. Why does the document have MORTO below his name? Did they record his death but not add any death date? As for Domenico - I was wondering about the fact that there were no births during that time frame so perhaps it is a son? How can we confirm it?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

Hope you can understand italian.

Bella domanda! Non avevo fatto caso alla parola "morto". Non è facile risponderti in maniera sicura, teoricamente dovrebbe significare che è morto subito o poco dopo il battesimo, anche se generalmente i preti usavano mettere un segno di croce ( † ) e non scriverlo. Oltretutto se passava qualche giorno, erano obbligati ad annotare l'avvenuto decesso nel registro dei morti. In più l'inchiostro mi sembra molto diverso da quello usato per compilare l'atto vero e proprio; secondo me è un'annotazione molto posteriore fatta da un altro parroco per una qualche sua esigenza (mi viene da pensare, ad esempio, alla ricerca di atti di battesimo per compilare gli estratti ad uso di pubblicazione e, per non confondersi, annotava il termine "morto" accanto ai nomi di chi era già deceduto, viste le frequenti omonimie, ma è solo una supposizione).
Per avere delle conferme dovresti avere la possibilità di controllare gli stati delle anime (se esistono) di quel periodo e vedere quando compare il tuo antenato, oppure il registro dei morti della parrocchia, o trovare le pubblicazioni per il matrimonio di Bruno o ancora verificare anche i registri di battesimo delle parrocchie confinanti (tutte cose molto complicate, stando in Canada!!!). Questi suggerimenti valgono anche per Domenico, ovviamente.

L.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

... però considera una cosa: tu hai l'atto di morte (che ti ha fornito Cathy) del tuo avo che dice che il decesso è avvenuto nel 1814 all'età di 54 anni, quindi
1814-
54=
--------
1760

Secondo me quello che ti ho trascritto è con mooolta probabilità il vero atto di battesimo del tuo antenato (ovvio che se vuoi esserne sicura devi fare quello che ti ho detto prima).

L.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

I believe you about Bruno -it's him for sure! I just wondered about the notation and about Domenico. Curious, thats all. Thanks for all your help Luca! Smile

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
... però considera una cosa: tu hai l'atto di morte (che ti ha fornito Cathy) del tuo avo che dice che il decesso è avvenuto nel 1814 all'età di 54 anni, quindi
1814-
54=
--------
1760

Secondo me quello che ti ho trascritto è con mooolta probabilità il vero atto di battesimo del tuo antenato (ovvio che se vuoi esserne sicura devi fare quello che ti ho detto prima).

L.
Si, grazie Luca!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

So, have you two got this figured out yet? How are you related?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

Oh Donna.. It's awful! Cathy has buried herself in these records and she hasn't come out yet! She says there are a few ways which we could be related but she's keeping even me in the dark until she finds that missing document she is looking for! Shes actually charting them all!


Hopefully she'll let us all know how soon -especially me! lol lol

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

Can't wait to see how it turns out! So bizarre that you are related ... I mean what are the chances??

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

Yes Jim, I guess the chances of her and I being related were better than you and I being related though. We originally met on another forum when she saw a post I made about Napolitano's in Montalto. We both thought from the very beginning all those years ago that there might be a connection. Who knew you and I would be related too?!! I feel so special! To be related to 2 of the best people who have helped me so much and have educated me on websites and Italian genealogy and so much more. How lucky can a girl get?!!

I think after this maybe I should see if Poipu has any Briatico connections to my family there! LOL

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:21 am    Post subject: Re: Translation of Nuccia's g g g grandfather's death act Reply with quote

Awwwhhh...thanks Cathy! We love you too. Smile

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