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Community Forums › How Can I locate my Family in Italy › Southern Italy › The "Ark is a moving"

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The "Ark is a moving"

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tcurri
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Location: Upper New York State

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

Biff, (happened again ---follow up) Liked Orbison, his music, Dream words...
I'm searching for a "come back...give me time.
Could there be an error? You mentioned that Emanuele (dad) " joins Tommaso". Is it possible you meant, Gaetano (Gueseppe)? It doesn't seem likely that Tommaso arriving in 1916 returned and/or remained in New York.
Next, I'm exasperated looking for Pietro. Where did you locate him?
Finally, Emanuele's first wife was Maria. Maria died soon after they were married. Dad's arrival in NY (1920) and the marriage date (1924) seem to coincide with my father's mentioning that for "a few years in NY" he was going from job to job and finding his life very unsettling.
Now your timely "Orbison"! The "beautiful witch of the north, my mother, eventually comes to rescue a lost soul. Like Pretty Woman they, in effect save one another and live a long marriage together. (Interested?)
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Biff83
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

Tom,

We've been locating so much stuff that the box score is getting difficult to read (pinch runners, double switches, etc).

If you check page 2 of your Dad's arrival manifest, it states he was joining father Tommaso at 2261 First Ave.--line 12
www.ellisisland.org/EI...&line=0012

The second page of Giuseppe/Gaetano's manifest states he (Gaetano) was joining brother Pietro at 321 East 112th St.--line 16
img443.imageshack.us/i...i19142.jpg

And, yes, I'm most interested in getting to know your parents and what brought them together. I can't imagine how hard it must have been for your Dad having moved away from the countryside of Italy to the insanity even then of New York city, to meet and marry Maria only to lose her. Usually it's the handsome prince who rescues the beautiful maiden but in your parents' case, the roles were reversed.

On a somewhat related note, in noodling around, I found another Ianniello connection which you may or may not be aware of. Carmen/Charles' wife was Damiana Ianniello per her manifest, and I believe that Cosmo Verrico, your uncle, married Polly (Palmina) Ianniello who was the daughter of Damiano (Dan) Ianniello of Utica. Haven't figured out how Damiano and Damiana were related--siblings or cousins, but both were from S Cosmo e Damiano.

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"There are only two lasting bequests we can give our children - one is roots, and the other, wings." -- Hodding S. Carter

"You live as long as you are remembered." -- Russian proverb


Last edited by Biff83 on Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:02 pm; edited 5 times in total
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tcurri
Junior
Junior


Joined: Feb 28, 2012
Posts: 25
Location: Upper New York State

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

Biff, I can not get to the area that you apparently have available, which is the Manhattan site for the marriage of mu father (Emanuele) and his first wife, Maria Cipoletti. Can you direct me there? Thanks, Tom
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Biff83
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

Tom.

I located it through Steve Morse's site.

stevemorse.org/vital/n...ndex=groom

Type in Curri in the last name field and you'll get I believe 4 hits:
Your Dad, his brother and two other Curri's. You can see the bride info by clicking of Bride.

Let me know if you have any trouble.

Biff

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"There are only two lasting bequests we can give our children - one is roots, and the other, wings." -- Hodding S. Carter

"You live as long as you are remembered." -- Russian proverb
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tcurri
Junior
Junior


Joined: Feb 28, 2012
Posts: 25
Location: Upper New York State

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:22 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

Biff, You're absolutely right. We have covered a whelm of material in my search; some of which is extremely surprising to me. For example, my mother and father lose their first mates tragically, 250 miles distant from one another, meet, and are married within a year.
Next my paternal grandfather is in Cortland, N.Y., a City where I was born, and never was his name mentioned as being a resident there. I can "see" a cousin like Gaetane Fumarola and his wife, Jenny, but Tommaso?
Something must be misunderstood and/or there's a "door" that I am hesitant to open.
My belief is that Tommaso gets to NYC and sees the disappointing life Gaetano is exhibiting including the poor care he has exhibited for his younger brother that he (Tommasso) returns to Italy; never more to return to the US.
So why go to Cortland? He didn't work there, no census record,and recall
he arrived in the US in l916. At 56 would he stay away from his wife, Rosa, for 4+ years?
P.S. I'm overly excited as you can surmise. I promise to settle down. Tom
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Biff83
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:39 am    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

Tom,

I don't believe we have been able to put your paternal grandfather Tommaso in Cortland. I mistakenly did that when I misread your Dad's 1920 ship manifest--Tommaso was actually in NYC at 2261 First Avenue perage two of Emanuele's manifest. It does appear that Tommaso was in the US for at least the period between his arrival in 1916 and son Emanule's in 1920. Perhaps, he stayed just long enough to see him get settled before he returned home.

"My mother and father lose their first mates tragically..."
Wow, who was your Mom's first husband?

Getting a little late. Talk with you tomorrow.

Biff

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"You live as long as you are remembered." -- Russian proverb
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tcurri
Junior
Junior


Joined: Feb 28, 2012
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Location: Upper New York State

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

Greetings biff, We' making head way. We have a "tiger by the tail" in Tommaso (Tom), Gaetano (Tom), Gueseppe, etc. Hang in there , friend!
1. I'm hving trouble reading some of the ship manifests due to poor clarity. I'm trusting your good eyes and computer images.
2. Could Tommaso 4 year stay (1916020) be verified by census, return trip to Italy, etc.? As I mentioned earlier Tommaso was 56 in 1916 and had little reason to remain in the US.
3. Would you agree with me that "Gaetano" could transend to "Tom" (English) Tommaso (Italian)? If so I have an interesting "window open".
4. Following the death of Emanuele's first wife, Maria Cipoletti, he turns to Cortland, N.Y. to the home of his cousin, Gaetano (Guy or Tom) FAMAROLA, 202 S. Main. Here steady work in a wire factory is available.
5. Biff, we acquired the marriage information of Emanuele and Maria (10 July 1924). She died within a year of their marriage. Can you help locate information of her death date?
P.S. Dad's first wife, Maria, died of high fever; Mom's first husband was killed in an industrial accident during their first year of marriage and her pregnant with child. Tom
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Biff83
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

tcurri wrote:
Greetings biff, We' making head way. We have a "tiger by the tail" in Tommaso (Tom), Gaetano (Tom), Gueseppe, etc. Hang in there , friend!
1. I'm hving trouble reading some of the ship manifests due to poor clarity. I'm trusting your good eyes and computer images.
2. Could Tommaso 4 year stay (1916020) be verified by census, return trip to Italy, etc.? As I mentioned earlier Tommaso was 56 in 1916 and had little reason to remain in the US.
3. Would you agree with me that "Gaetano" could transend to "Tom" (English) Tommaso (Italian)? If so I have an interesting "window open".
4. Following the death of Emanuele's first wife, Maria Cipoletti, he turns to Cortland, N.Y. to the home of his cousin, Gaetano (Guy or Tom) FAMAROLA, 202 S. Main. Here steady work in a wire factory is available.
5. Biff, we acquired the marriage information of Emanuele and Maria (10 July 1924). She died within a year of their marriage. Can you help locate information of her death date?
P.S. Dad's first wife, Maria, died of high fever; Mom's first husband was killed in an industrial accident during their first year of marriage and her pregnant with child. Tom

1. Let me know whatever you can't make out and I'll post for you.

2. If Tommaso was in the US on 30 Apr 1920, the date of son Emanule's arrival, he should have been reported on the 1920 census unless he wasn't counted for some reason. I'll see if I can find him as well as the other son Giuseppe/Gaetano. The 1920 census would be really helpful. No records are available for outbound passengers so we won't be able to find when Tommaso returned to Italy.

3. It was fairly common for Italians with the first name Gaetano to become "Tom" much like Italian Vincenzo became "James."

4. Did Emanuele work at the Wickwire Bros. factory? Gaetano/Tom Fumarola likely would have been Emanuele's mother Rosa Fumarola's nephew.

5. The same site that hosts the groom/bride info also has deaths for the five boroughs of New York indexed. I've been trying and will continue to try to find her death record.

Tom, if you'd rather not post answers to the following questions on the public forum, you could PM me if you'd like.
Your Mom was Assunta Verrico aka Susie, correct? If Emanuele was your biological father, what was the name of Assunta's first child?

Biff

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"There are only two lasting bequests we can give our children - one is roots, and the other, wings." -- Hodding S. Carter

"You live as long as you are remembered." -- Russian proverb
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tcurri
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Location: Upper New York State

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

Biff, I'll try to PM. New to me but look for me...
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Biff83
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

Okay, Tom. If you're having trouble doing a PM, let me know and I'll give you my email address

I located Maria Cipoletti Curri's death record on the following site.

stevemorse.org/vital/nydeath.html

Name:
Curri, Mary
Age: 21 years
Date of death: Jan 11 1925
Certificate#: 1352 (1925)
County: Manhattan
Approx year of birth: 1903 - 1904

There's also a death record in Manhattan for a Rosina Curri (named for Rosa Fumarola, the paternal grandmother), age 1 year, in 1919. Wonder if she might have been Gaetano and Josephine's daughter?

Still looking for the 1920 census.

Biff

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"You live as long as you are remembered." -- Russian proverb
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Biff83
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:51 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

Tom,

Having a devil of a time locating those 1920 census records. Did Gaetano/Josephine have any other children besides Rosina?

Biff

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"You live as long as you are remembered." -- Russian proverb
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Biff83
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

Urrggghhhh!

Why can't I locate Gaetano/Giuseppe and Josephine's 1920 and 1930 census?
2134 First Ave in 1917 (WWI Draft Reg Card)
2127 First Ave in 1944 (Naturalization Index Card)

They had to be in the neighborhood. Tom, did they always lived on the upper east side? Any chance they lived in Jersey, Queens, Brukulinu or upstate at some point?

I'm going to continue to search but, if all else fails, I may have to do the dreaded page by page search for the enumeration district which could take a while.

Biff

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"You live as long as you are remembered." -- Russian proverb
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Biff83
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

1930 census:

Gaetano/Giuseppe and Josephine and family NOT at either address on First Avenue.

Tomorrow's task: the 1920 census.

Biff

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"You live as long as you are remembered." -- Russian proverb
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Biff83
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

Tom,

I'm pretty confident that this is Gaetano/Joseph, Josephine with daughter Rosie and father Thomas in the 1920 census Address is 2134 First Avenue.
Further proof that father Tommaso was in the US from 1916-1920.
What do you think?

imageshack.us/a/img84/...it1920.jpg

Biff

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"You live as long as you are remembered." -- Russian proverb
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Biff83
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Ark is a moving" Reply with quote

Bernardino's siblings:

Bernardino's 1902 manifest, line 17
a.imageshack.us/img214...co1902.jpg

Antonio Verrico who was the brother he was joining in 1902 in NYC.

Name: Antonio Verrico--Line 26
Arrival Date: 23 Apr 1898
Birth Year: abt 1880
Age: 18
Last residence: Santi Cosma e Damiano
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/RaceĀ­/Nationality: Italian
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Bolivia
Joining uncle Giovanni Di Iorio in NYC (check the person on line 13 on Bedrnardino's manifest--Giovanni Iorio)

imageshack.us/a/img842...co1898.jpg

Biff

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"You live as long as you are remembered." -- Russian proverb
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