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Community Forums › General › General Discussion Groups › Preservation (or not) of records!

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Preservation (or not) of records!
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Carole
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:46 pm    Post subject: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

Did anyone happen to see an item about preservation of records, films, etc on 'CBS Sunday Morning' today?

It seems that the LDS Church in the past has done a great job of filming paper records that are disintegrating and is now migrating them to digital, which will be available free to everyone on the web.

But it seems that all those records that they weren't allowed to film will probably will be lost forever. Now that is awful and potentially disastrous for people like us... What do you all think?

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MikeSavoca91
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

I say preservation is key. I understand some of the reasoning behind some places not wanting to let then filming and indexing their records,however it should also be taken into consideration that these are a wealth of personal and historical information. Once these records are gone, they are gone. How many times have we found an old photo that is faded beyond all recognition, and there is simply nothing we can do and there is no copy so the image is gone forever. I feel that if the towns don't want to allow the LDS to catalogue their records, then the government should do it. These are the only connections people of today can have with those of the past, and the only chance some people have at being remembered.

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BillieDeKid
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

I did not see the program you're talking about but I agree with you 100%. If you have a group, such as the LDS that wants to scan and make the records free for public use, then why not let them do it (provided the documents fall within the years according to the privacy act).

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Eleven
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

I agree with Mike. If they wont let the LDS do it, then the governments should do it.

I think, in some of these countries, they fear the religious part of the LDS filming, especially with the latest info, that the catholic church wont allow any more of their records filmed alleging that mormons were baptising people after death. Whether thats true, in some cases or not, what does it mean? Absolutely nothing, unless YOU believe that dead people can be baptised.

I am actively indexing and arbitrating records for both the LDS and Ancestry...to be put online. This is another way of preserving these documents.

So many people, come from areas, where records were burned or lost to wars or natural disasters. These people could never research their family history, which is unfortunate. Why have that happen to people with records that exist (for the moment, but not forever).

A little off topic here, but I have been wondering about something, since I am working on the Italian records for ancestry. Where are they getting these things? Since the LDS holds most of the world records, and they are putting them online, themselves, I am sure they arent lending these things to ancestry.(which by the way,the LDS records will be FREE to access their documents, while ancestry allows their normal free searching, but paid subscription to view the documents). So..is ancestry out there filming records, also? The records I work on all have the ancestry stamp, which indicates to me that they have their own people out there filming. They might have better luck with these places, since religion isnt involved.
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Eleven
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

Another off topic comment. (Sorry Carole, but this is important and should get out there). A lot of the records we have completed indexing for the FHL, wont be out there for a couple of months. This is because they nomalize the records so that all town names are spelled correctly, male and female will all show as the word and not the initial..etc. They make them so everything that can be matched, is..for easier searching.

When the time comes to do your search, if after searching on the LDS, using as many spellings as possible, taking into consideration that due to handwriting, an a might have been transcribed as an o, a t as and L, etc...see if ancestry has the same records, then search there. I say this because..even if they have the identical records, they have different people working on them..and as we all know, different people can see different things. I can honestly say..a good 30-35% of the surnames will be in these indexes with the incorrect spelling. This is due to either poor spelling or not understanding the accents of people, by the person taking the information..or the poor handwriting, that the person transcribing, just cant read. If you think your person was in a certain place at a certain time and you just cant seem to find them....they are probably there with the wrong spelling, so dont give up.
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Carole
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

I don't want ANYBODY to apologise for taking this topic slightly 'off course'.

I am so enraged and incensed that 'the church' felt able to put a stop to the work of the LDS on saving all these archives and so be able to open them up to public scrutiny and study!

Whatever you may believe about post death baptisms, it seems to me that the spirit of that person is long gone from this mortal coil and will be in the arms of 'their God' long before the Mormons get a chance to re-baptise them - if in fact they do!

Preservation of our heritage is what is important.... can you imagine what an outcry there would be if people of opposing church/religions/persuasions/theories suddenly said that no one could copy, see or preserve the Magna Carta (1215) or the American Constitution (1787).

There would be an International outcry... but this decision is, as you all say, going to deny there EVER being a possibility for millions of 'ordinary people' - like you and I, of ever knowing about their forebears or where they were from - that is a crime against us all and as such should be open to public debate! The question is "How to go about doing that?"

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lilbees
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

As the Pope seems to be a little more open minded and modernized that previous and even more so than the people who may surround him, what about a writing campaign dirctly to him and/or the varous Catholic Newspapers/Periodicals. I am sure there are other ways as well but at least that would be a start. Maybe just going to your local priest and expressing your concerns might help or he may have another direction for you to go to reach out to this understanding and compassionate Pope.

lilbees

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

If we don't like an action of our Congress we beseiged them with letters and calls. Sometimes something is done.

lilbees

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Italysearcher
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

I find it amazing that people outside Italy feel so strongly that access to Italian civil and parish records should be universal and free. Try accessing English records. Not even the Mormons have convinced the English to allow filming of their civil records. Each certificate costs £7 and no guarantee that it is the right one. Scottish records are not free and neither are US or Canadian. I am currently photographing and putting on CD parish records to preserve them , in my area BUT with the restriction that they are not to be published by me on the internet or elsewhere.

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Eleven
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

I think..if someone has to look them up for you, copy it, mail it, then there should be a fee. I have paid for most documents, US and Italian. However, I would have liked it much better, if I could look, myself (offline or on). Nobody searches for your people, like you do. I have seen this several times.

When I began to look for ship passenger records, at that time, the national archives would search for you for free. If they found something, they gave you a little info on your person and for 10 dollars you could get the document copy (which was a huge, huge copy and very nice). Back then, I would send to them, the same peoples names, as I would search on my own. Out of 10 people, they found one..I found all.

I also sent for my mother in laws birth cert in Pennsylvania. I needed this for the last name of her mother (which I still dont have a proper name for this woman). They sent me a type written cert...NOT a photocopy. They typed in what they thought the surname of the mother should be, which wasnt even italian..lol..according to what they typed.

I think with most people..it isnt the money..its the fact that THEY want to search because they can do a better search.
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Carole
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

Quote::
Preservation of our heritage is what is important.... can you imagine what an outcry there would be if people of opposing church/religions/persuasions/theories suddenly said that no one could copy, see or preserve the Magna Carta (1215) or the American Constitution (1787).

There would be an International outcry... but this decision is, as you all say, going to deny there EVER being a possibility for millions of 'ordinary people' - like you and I, of ever knowing about their forebears or where they were from - that is a crime against us all and as such should be open to public debate! The question is "How to go about doing that?"

In my personal opinion there should be a small charge for any documentation provided from national archives of any type... that at least would ensure that these valuable archives are protected and cared for.

Times have changed over recent decades and families whose forbears wished only to escape and forget their past would never have imagined (and many still don't) just how important the sense of 'discovering, owning and belonging to their heritage' would be to their scions.

The pertinent and most important part of my opening post was -I believe- this:

Quote::
It seems that the LDS Church in the past has done a great job of filming paper records that are disintegrating and is now migrating them to digital, which will be available free to everyone on the web.

But it seems that all those records that they weren't allowed to film will probably will be lost forever.


This is what should not be allowed to happen - one way or another - these records really MUST BE SAVED!

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DonnaPellegrin
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

I believe this is a link to the segment. It was called Bye, Tech: Dealing With Data Rot

CBS Sunday Morning

Donna
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BillieDeKid
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

Thanks for the link Donna.

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Elizabeth
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Eleven
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

Thanks Donna. That was an interesting read.
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nuccia
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Preservation (or not) of records! Reply with quote

Yes, very interesting. Thank you.

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