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Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Could someone help...

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Could someone help...
For help with translating documents or writing letters.
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JamesBianco
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:47 pm    Post subject: Could someone help... Reply with quote

My Grandfather's father got really sick when he was just 6 years old. My Nonno was born in 1918 and by the end of 1924 his father was institutionalized. He lingered 9 years in Northampton State Hospital for the Insane before he died at age 36 in 1934.

One of the most special possessions passed down to me is a post card my Nonno's dad sent him from Miami (He was in hiding at the time, he had many enemies at that time from what I have been told) when my Nonno was just 6 years old.

I would love to know what he said to his oldest son (My Nonno)...

Here is Diego...



Here is his son, My nonno (who pretty much was my idol after his son, my dad passed away when I was 15)



and here is his message to his son...


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Carole
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:43 am    Post subject: Re: Could someone help... Reply with quote

Dearest James - it is a very nice message. But there is one word that I can't quite read (the one after 'torno') and it is, I feel, an important word for his message. For that reason - sooner than guessing I'm going to leave it to one of our experts...

But he does say not to worry and that he is well now....

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JamesBianco
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: Could someone help... Reply with quote

Thank you Carole! other than "caro figlio" I can't decifer a thing!

Sad

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Luca
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Could someone help... Reply with quote

Caro figlio stai tranquillo ora sto bene e torno a Roma (about Roma I'm not sure 100%) non ti bandono (if it's bandono it means abbandono; vice versa if it's bastono cames from the verb bastare) più.

Ciao
Luca
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Aether
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Could someone help... Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
Caro figlio stai tranquillo ora sto bene e torno a Roma (about Roma I'm not sure 100%) non ti bandono (if it's bandono it means abbandono; vice versa if it's bastono cames from the verb bastare) più.

Ciao
Luca

"Caro figlio stai tranquillo ora sto bene e torno a (not sure it is Roma)
non ti bastono piu."

I believe he says that: He will not "discipline" him, the son, "stai tranquillo" i.e. "non ti bastono piu" , with accent on the first "o". Da "bastonare , v.tr.

At that time it was common for teachers and fathers to discipline childrens...
P.S. BASTONARE, v.tr. = To beat with a stick; to trash; to cudgel; (fig.) to ill-treat; to censure.

Sophia Wink


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Carole
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: Could someone help... Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
Caro figlio stai tranquillo ora sto bene e torno a Roma (about Roma I'm not sure 100%) non ti bandono (if it's bandono it means abbandono; vice versa if it's bastono cames from the verb bastare) più.

Ciao
Luca

Luca, I don't think it IS Roma... the word looks like

rait
That's why I left it to others... there is no capital R there, and yet he clearly uses capital letters.

But I do think the other word is 'bastono' so maybe the 'rait' ties in with that?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Could someone help... Reply with quote

Carole wrote:
Luca wrote:
Caro figlio stai tranquillo ora sto bene e torno a Roma (about Roma I'm not sure 100%) non ti bandono (if it's bandono it means abbandono; vice versa if it's bastono cames from the verb bastare) più.

Ciao
Luca

Luca, I don't think it IS Roma... the word looks like

rait
That's why I left it to others... there is no capital R there, and yet he clearly uses capital letters.

But I do think the other word is 'bastono' so maybe the 'rait' ties in with that?

To: Carole and Luca..., and James...

I think the word is 'RANTO da RANTOLARE' =make throat noises, as a lion does, just a menace, but : "non the bastono piu" ... all a kind of lets make-up sort of note?

I find that in Italian I must look not only for the 'verbatim et literatim' but for what is intended, it is not a direct language, to our despair...

It all ties together: " sto bene" , "stai tranquillo", "ranto", "non te bastono piu".

Just a little post - card! But nice!

Sophia Smile


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Luca
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Could someone help... Reply with quote



Penso di aver capito: quello "strano segno" significa: all right. Il suono c'è Wink
E siccome il tono della lettera è molto cordiale non credo che volesse rassicurarlo sulle "bastonate" ma sul fatto che non intendesse più abbandonarlo Very Happy

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JamesBianco
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Could someone help... Reply with quote

Thank you Carole, Luca and Sophia! I just got home from the beach. I have to read your posts more carefully and try and figure out what Diego was saying from your great translations.


Smile

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Cathy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Could someone help... Reply with quote

Shocked I'm so sorry...maybe I am dense but I do not understand what the post card actually says. Embarassed hide

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Carole
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Could someone help... Reply with quote

Cathy wrote:
8O I'm so sorry...maybe I am dense but I do not understand what the post card actually says. Embarassed hide

It says essentially:

Dear Son
Don't worry, I'm well now and I will return to
xxxx (rast?) and I will not (promise not to....?)
beat you (?) any more.
James Bianco

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JamesBianco
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Could someone help... Reply with quote

My grandfather was 5 years old when his father sent that to him.

Wow!

Sad

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Aether
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Could someone help... Reply with quote

JamesBianco wrote:
My grandfather was 5 years old when his father sent that to him.

Wow!

Sad

James, I think it is a avery nice card, adresses the son as "Paolino" and "Dear Son".
From what you know from your ggfather he had some problems, had some treatment, and writes:

"ora sto bene = now I am well". So, he is re-assuring the son, "stai tranquillo = do not fear" ( even if I) "torno a ranto"= again may make noises", rantolare" "non te bastono piu +will not beat you again".

It shows to me , at least, that no mater his condition he loved Paolino!

The extra XXXXXX, if 8 instead of 7 could be "abbracci". Fits "bacione"! Fits "Nonnino" I leave it to Luca!

Sophia Smile


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JamesBianco
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Could someone help... Reply with quote

Thank You Sophia, yes my great-grandfather was not well mentally. My grandfather (his son) saved this post card from his father who he barely knew.

Like I Said, so sad!

Crying or Very sad

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Luca
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Could someone help... Reply with quote

Scusa Carole se insisto (e se scrivo in italiano; poi magari tu traduci).
Il senso della lettera (al 99%) è questo. James era stato male e si era dovuto allontanare da casa (forse in un sanatorio). Ma nel momento in cui scriveva la cartolina stava meglio e lo comunicava al figlio: - Caro figlio stai tranquilllo ora sto bene e torno (sottinteso: da voi) o rait. Qui sta il presunto dilemma. Secondo me la prima lettera non è una a, ma una o e quindi non può essere "torno a rantolare" (che non avrebbe neanche l'aggancio logico con il fatto che ora sta bene: uno che rantola NON sta bene) e nemmeno torno a Rait (città che non credo esista in nessun posto degli Stati Uniti; c'è una Rait, ma si trova vicino Dundee, nel Regno Unito Wink ).
L'unica spiegazione è che abbia voluto fare il "simpatico" usando un'espressione americana sentita centinaia di volte ma (probabilmente) mai scritta. Questa espressione americana è ALL RIGHT che alle orecchie di un emigrante italiano suona esattamente così: O RAIT.
Quindi:
Caro figlio stai tranquilllo ora sto bene e torno all right (sono in perfetta forma) e non ti abbandono più. James Bianco.
Se invece come dice il nostro amico James poco sopra il suo bisnonno non stava bene mentalmente allora può darsi che si trovasse in una specie di manicomio e probabilmente in passato aveva veramente bastonato il figlio: in questo caso la esatta trascrizione potrebbe essere:
Caro figlio stai tranquilllo ora sto bene e torno all right (sono in perfetta forma) e non ti bastono più. James Bianco
Le X potrebbero (ma NON sono sicuro) essere baci.

Ciao a tutti

Luca


Last edited by Luca on Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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