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'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records
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Artusi
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote

My original surname was 'Artusi'.Four Brothers came to Texas/Louisiana in 1840 from Rovigno, and name was changed to 'ARTO' & 'ARTUSY'. Eventually all were in Restaurant/Saloon/Boarding business in Houston, Texas between 1855 thru 1870. While recently viewing some records from ROVIGNO in both 18th & 19th Century, there were some 'abbreviations' used, and one in particular was between two different person's names,......' qm.'. What does ' qm. ' mean?

There are other abbreviations used, but I will not complicate present inquiry. Was wondering though, if there is a site explaining these 'Records Abbreviations' for navigating.

Any help would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks,

Earl Arto
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote

The name following 'qm' is the father of the person before it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote

Ms. Tatangelo: Thank you very much! My suspicion was that the latter was a 'Brother'.

If you would please permit me one more question,....What if the 'abbreviation between two people's name is ' q. '

What would this mean?

Thanks, Earl Arto
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote

'q' means they are still alive, 'qm' means the person is deceased.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote

Ms. Tatangelo: You've made my day! With what you have told me, has confirmed an unknown of my G-G-Uncle's marriage in Rovigno, via these recent Rovigno Records, before coming to USA in 1840. The 1850 New Orleans census never gave his spouse's name, etc., whom died before 1860, he remarried, and since 2000 when I first started Family Research, theres been other relatives that refused to believe the uncle had married in Rovigno.

I cannot tell you how monumental this confirmation is, THANKS TO YOU, and the simplistic abbreviations of 'q.' and 'qm.'

Regards, Earl Arto
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote

Can you post an image of the abbreviations you found?
"Qm" is definitely the abbreviation of quondam (= decesead), but i don't think at all that "q" stands for alive.

Luca
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:12 am    Post subject: Re: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote

Artusi - mistro Carlo da Milan fabbro, detto prima Manzoni, e poi Artusi - 1709 in Lucia Angelini q. Zuanne - 1720 in Antonia Ghira. Nel marzo del 1802 detta famiglia con Carlo Artusi qm. Antonio fu aggregata nel Corpo dei Cittadini o Nobili di Rovigno. Nel 1878 i figli di A. Artusi fondarono a Rovigno una Cereria:
--------------------------------------------
**Note: The above is a sample of the ' Q ' and ' QM ' abbreviations I've seen on this Rovigno Records Site.

Hope this helps and Thanks!

Regard, Earl Arto
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote



The following site
www.hist.msu.ru/Depart.../Cappelli/
will give you the explanation of most of the ancient Latin abbreviations.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote

Of course I am prepared to be corrected by these more scholarly members but I have found in my personal research of parish documents that priests typically used these abbreviations in the way I mentioned.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote

I think that both of them ("q" and "qm") stand for quondam, but, unfortunately, i'm not so scholarly to give you an incontrovertible evidence!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote

Artusi wrote:

**Note: The above is a sample of the ' Q ' and ' QM ' abbreviations I've seen on this Rovigno Records Site.

I'm curious, and my curiosity has nothing to do with the abbreviations, about the Rovigno site that you are mentioning. Can you give me the address?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote

search.isp.netscape.co...ngCro1.htm

----------------------------------
The above is the Rovigno site, consisting of the 'ANGELINI FAMILY & RELATIVES' and Governmental Issues, covering 3 time periods, along with an introduction. Scroll down to bottom of each page to select between time periods of Rovigno History. I believe that listing info concerning birth/death records were of course taken from Diocese Records.

I'm on Central Time and will not be back at it till ~Evening. I need to look at some Birth/Babtismal Records from Rovigno I have, to check some things out, and I will check out all of the info/advice/web sites all of you nice people have provided me. Give me some time to check all of this out, and if all of you wouldn't mind, I will probably have some additional questions. I started my research back in ~2000, and I have a massive pile of records, due to the size/complications of the Artusi/Arto/Artusy Family. The original 'Carlo Artusi'(Blacksmith) was to have gone to Rovigno in ~1705, from Milan,...where as records mention that he changed his name to 'Artusi' from 'Manzoni'. SO,...as you can see, after doing research on family from ~2000 thru 2005, I took some time off before loosing my mind. NOW, I'm ready to put the 'FINAL ICING ON THE CAKE', so to speak.

Thank You All! Be back online shortly.

Regards, Earl Arto
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote

Let us know how you make out Earl. Lots of talented people and valuable information from all our members so of course, please please feel free to ask more questions and share your findings with us. We all learn from each other! Smile

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote

Nuccia: I'm Back!!...Thanks for the pep-talk,.......believe me, I'm not a 'sponge' looking for free info while I sit back on my posterior/recliner,.....I would greatly appreciate any help/pointers/etc., from any and all, and who knows, maybe the family info I shed will be missing pieces of family puzzle for someone else,....

O.K.,....I looked at my LDS Rovigno Birth/Babtismal records of ~1800-1830 last night concerning the 'ARTUSI' Family. As I said before, there were, that I know of, 4 Artusi Brothers(Carlo,birth 1814Rovig,John,1819Rovig,Bernard,1829Rovig,Jacob,1830RovigMy GG Grandfather) that migrated to the USA(Gulf Coast/Texas-Louisiana) in ~1840(Never found any immigrant passenger ship records,...PLUS CARLO came over at a later time), BUT, I know they were in the area of Mobile Bay, Alabama in 1845 when the second oldest 'John' will marry a 'MARY ARGESS'(As per filed Marriage Cert.). Later records show John/Bernard/Jacob in Galveston, Texas beginning in 1847 in Restaurant Business/Land/Home Deeds, etc.. Then around 1848 John goes to Brownsville, Texas in Restaurant Business due to booming area as per the ending of the U.S./Mexican War. Bernard/Jacob go to New Orleans, La. in around 1852-1853, where Bernard is in the Grocery Business. Bernard stays in New Orleans at least thru 1862, ...Jacob goes to 'Indianola , Texas' between 1855-1859 in the Oyster Business, then goes to Houston, Tx in 1861 in the Restaurant/Saloon/Boarding Business where he dies. John comes back to Galveston in ~1852-3 in Restaurant Business, then to Houston, Tx also in the Restaurant/Saloon/Boarding Business and dies. Now,...'Bernard' & 'Carlo',.....these 2 uncles have caused me all kinds of problems,.....you know, the kinds of problems that 'tempered genealogists' just love, because, when you find the missing puzzle piece, its time to drink a good stiff drink!

***NOTE: Of these 4 brothers, 3 of them(John/Bernard/Jacob) married 'German Immigrant Females',...Both John & Jacob remarried to other 'German Immigrated Female' after their first wives died........'CARLO',....he first married in Rovigno, to I believe will be 'Giovanna Angelini',....migrates to Louisiana, then she dies, and he will marry a 'Native French La. Female'.

******HAS ANYONE ON THIS SITE SEEN THIS SITUATION OF 'ITALIAN MEN' MARRYING 'GERMAN WIVES'?? THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PROBLEM FOR ME, CONSIDERING THIS TIME PERIOD,...I UNDERSTAND THAT THE HISTORY OF ROVIGNO WAS MULTI-NATIONAL, AND PROBABLY CITIZENS WERE MULTI-LINGUAL, BUT, IT SURE SEEMS STRANGE THAT THEY 'EXCLUSIVELY' MARRIED GERMAN NATIONALS??

**NOTE: John And Jacob Artusi as of ~1850-55 more or less readily used/changed name to 'ARTO'.

'Bernard',.......He more or less changed to 'ARTO', but still hung-on to 'ARTUSI' via certain other records,...but I will enter at another time, on my theory, via the U.S. Civil War(War of The Rebellion), as to what ever happened to him, as well as his wife. It has to do with a Secret Naval/Land Confederate mission in Louisiana toward the end of the war. I will post documents telling of this mission, in hopes that someone on this site might just know something about it, etc..

'CARLO',.....Now, this Uncle was the oldest of the four,....I do not think he got along with the other 3 brothers, and, consequently, he got out of fishing business in Jefferson Parish, Louisiana in ~1868-69, then moved to Houston, Tx. in business. While he was in LA., he maintained the 'ARTUSI' name,.....then when he moved to Houston, records show an attempt to change to 'ARTO',.......but then changes name literally to ...'ARTUSY'.

*****BREAK TIME..........Is everyone entertained yet??....Believe me, I'm not gloating about my family,....I'm trying to set the framework for my questions I'm about to ask,.....

O.K.,.....I do not know how many of you reading this have observed the LDS(should be referred to as 'LSD') Birth/Babtismal records of Rovigno in the 1800 period, but I know that my eyesight weakened as a result, not to mention my patience, as a result of days/hours spent just on this one time period, but the recent help from all of you concerning the abbreviations of 'Q' & 'QM' helped me last night as I reobserved these records. What I'm trying to do is find out 'WHO' Carlo Artusi's first wife was, that he married in Rovigno, before he migrated to Louisiana. Back in ~2000, Relatives on Carlo's side decided they were going to use the 'Barn-Storming Genealogical Research Methods' and they soon went down in flames due to the 'INFINITE' amount of patience required, and they started 'gluing info' together, hince proclaiming victory,...'Story Book Ends'!....I ponted out that their 'Victory' was without 'Foundation', but, they didn't take heed, and flooded the internet with 'loosened nuts & bolts'.

*****As per these Rovigno Babtismal/Catholic Records,......'WHY' does the column of 'Birth Mother', more or less list the 'MOTHER's NAME' in the 'NON-LATIN' configuration? In Other Words, the Mother of these 4 Brothers was 'JOANNA LICINI',......The 'FATHER' was listed as 'ALOYSIUS'(I assume this is latin for Lewis and/or Louis). I assume that the 'Italian' version for 'Joanna' is 'Giovanna'? Why did the priest use 'Joanna'?

******I also noticed, as per the 'FATHER's COLUMN',...'ALOYSIUS ARTUSI, 'Q' or QM' CAROLI POSSIDENS,...as I progressed thru the years, getting closer to Jacob's birth, that the 'Q' between Aloysius & Caroli(CARLO) became a 'QM'. I will assume that (Thanks to all of you at this site) this meant that 'CAROLI/CARLO' was deceased. As per 'POSSIDENS', I assumed that this was 'Latin' for 'Land Owner'.

********Back to the brother 'CARLO',.....the aforementioned research relatives had always refused to accept that/the 1860 US Jefferson Parish, LA. Census was correct, in that it showed 'Carlo & Mrs. Artusy' and 5 children,...all of which showed to have been born in 'ITALY'(This is another story,....you see, the other three brothers used Both Austria and Italy as their births places, and as time progressed, it was solidly 'Austria' or 'Empire of Austria',...of course reflecting upon what country was ruling Croatia/Rovigno at the time as per census. BUT, then again, 'CARLO' always had entered on his census as 'ITALY' being his birth Place, and he never married a German Wife,...who knows, maybe a reflection. 'Carlo's' 1st Marriage Children were in 1860/LA.: 'Emelina- 17, Ludoris- 16, Joseph- 14, Charles- 10, & Louis-7. This would mean that 'Carlo' didn't immigrate to the US until somewhere ~1854 @ the earlist(via Louis's age of 7), ...PLUS I even checked LA's Land/Business Records to show an earlier arrival..........................................................THEN as of the past couple of days, at the Rovigno Website, I come across a 'Austrian/Rovigno Census Type Index Listing' of 1837 and see a listing of , " ANGELINI GIOVANNA ved. a CARLO ARTUSI".
****I assume this translates to "Giovanna/Joanna Angelini with a Carlo Artusi".

'BINGO", I think!....I've finally found out who the 'Mrs. Artusi' is and mother of the five children in 1860 LA.! ...Its 'Joanna Angelini'!....Well Earl,...Not so fast,....'Carlo' the brother,....his Mother was 'Joanna 'LICINI' as per LSD Rovigno Babtismal/Births.

*****THE SURNAME 'LICINI',.....HAS ANYONE RESEARCHED THIS SURNAME?
******DUE TO THE SMALL BOXES THE PRIEST HAD TO PRINT IN FOR BABTISMAL RECORDS, IS THERE ANY CHANCE THAT THE PRIEST WOULD SHORTEN THE NAME 'ANGELINI' to 'LICINI' FOR ANY BIZARRE REASON???
*****I'VE NOT YET RUN THE NAME 'LICINI', BUT ON EVERY CHILD'S BABTISMAL ROVIGNO RECORD THE MOTHER's NAME IS CLEARLY 'JOANNA LICINI'.

***Bottom Line,...I think I have discovered 'Carlo's' first wife,....'GIOVANNA/JOANNA ANGELINI'. The 1837 Rovigno time frame 'FITS PERFECTLY'!!!!.....YES, I KNOW,.......NOW I HAVE TO GO TO THE LDS/LSD CENTER AND ORDER THE ROVIGNO MARRIAGE RECORDS TO CONFIRM!!!!!!DARN,...NOT THAT AGAIN!!! JUST WHEN I WANTED TO HAVE A STIFF DRINK TO CELEBRATE!!!

Gee, AFTER I'VE FIGURED ALL OF THIS OUT PER ROVIGNO,....THEN I CAN GO TO MILAN AND FIND OUT WHY THE ORIGINAL 'CARLO ARTUSI/BLACKSMITH' (Moved from Milan to Rovigno in ~1705 and married a 'LUCIA ANGELINNI Q. ZUANNE) CHANGED HIS NAME FROM 'MANZONI' TO 'ARTUSI' IN AROUND 1680.

***ISN'T GENEALOGY 'FUN'?!

Thanks for everyone's time,....I hope some of this info will connect with your's. I will later post this other U.S. Civil War info dealing with 'Bernard Artusi/Arto'.

Thanks & Regards,

Earl Arto/Artusi/Manzoni/?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 'ABBREVIATIONS' used in Early Italian Records Reply with quote

Just looking through some additional info (which you may already have)

New Orleans, Louisiana Birth Records Index, 1790-1899
Given: Charles B.
Surname: Artusi
Father: Bernard
Mother: Ernestine Loring
Sex: M
Color: W
Birth Date: 09 Apr 1853
Volume: 20
Page: 591
View Full Context

Given: William B.
Surname: Artusi
Father: Bernard
Mother: Ernestine Loring
Sex: M
Color: W
Birth Date: 07 Aug 1855
Volume: 20
Page: 591
View Full Context

Given: Bernard B.
Surname: Artusi
Father: Bernard
Mother: Ernestine Loring
Sex:
Color: W
Birth Date: 05 Jun 1857
Volume: 20
Page: 592
View Full Context

Given: Henry B.
Surname: Artusi
Father: Bernard
Mother: Ernestine Loring
Sex:
Color: W
Birth Date: 05 Jun 1857
Volume: 20
Page: 592
View Full Context

Given: Rosalie
Surname: Artusi
Father: Jacob
Mother: Catharine Haubert
Sex: F
Color: W
Birth Date: 15 May 1858
Volume: 48
Page: 610
View Full Context


Louisiana Census, 1791-1890
about Bennett Artusi -
Name: Bennett Artusi
State: LA
County: Orleans Parish
Township: New Orleans 8th Ward
Year: 1860
Record Type: Federal Population Schedule
Page: 256
Database: LA 1860 Federal Census Index


Louisiana Census, 1791-1890
about Charles Artusi
Name: Charles Artusi
State: LA
County: Jefferson Parish
Township: Jefferson City P.O.
Year: 1860
Record Type: Federal Population Schedule
Page: 636
Database: LA 1860 Federal Census Index


Louisiana Census, 1791-1890
about Charles Artusi
Name: Charles Artusi
State: LA
County: Jefferson Parish
Township: Jefferson City P.O.
Year: 1860
Record Type: Federal Population Schedule
Page: 637
Database: LA 1860 Federal Census Index


1860 United States Federal Census
about Chs Artusi
Name: Chs Artusi
[Charles Artusi]
Age in 1860: 44
Birth Year: abt 1816
Birthplace: Italy
Home in 1860: Jefferson, Louisiana
Gender: Male
Post Office: Jefferson City
Value of real estate: View image
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Morrera 9
Chs Artusi 44
Artusi 42
Emelina Artusi 17
Ludorie Artusi 16
Joseph Artusi 14
Charles Artusi 10
Andris Artusi 7


U.S. Federal Census Mortality Schedules Index
about Charles Artusi
Surname: Charles Artusi
Year: 1860
County: Orleans Par
State: LA
Age: 06
Gender: M (Male)
Month of Death: Dec
State of Birth: LA
ID#: MRT2_141
Occupation: NONE LISTED
Cause Of Death: R.R. KILLED

Does this help some?

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