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#1: Notary document Author: AetherLocation: Americas, Italy PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:25 pm
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Luca,
Regarding the translation of "mendicato colore" I made a mistake of trying a translation out of context. I had only the two words. Later I received a transcription and afterwards I saw for the first time the original document were the archaic expression appeared.
The original document had a few words which were missing from the transcribed text, and had a new phrase inserted that must have come from another page?
At this time I wrote a quick PRIVATE MESSAGE to Liz with my observations. LIZ kiss could you please post my message, with typos and all? I believe will clear this. When transcribing it is necessary to pay att. if the doc. is in quarto, or octavo not to end up in another page?

Sophia Abbracci Wink

#2: Re: Notary document Author: LucaLocation: Terni - Italy PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:46 am
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You was right: I posted the wrong one! The pic posted referred to a part I leaved out (the one in red below)

Quote::
... confinante da capo con i beni di Pietro Paolo Pacelli, da piedi con i beni ereditarii di Mattia Porchetti, posseduti da ipolito Erculei, da un lato con i beni di Gio(vanni) Battista Fabrizi, salvi altri §.
[...]
Quae o(mn)ia §, alias §, de quibus§, quod §, prò quibus §

This is the right one:



Anyway the words are always: "mendicato colore"

Luca


Last edited by Luca on Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:14 am; edited 1 time in total

#3: Re: Notary document Author: AetherLocation: Americas, Italy PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:50 am
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Luca,

I can not open the image. The words missing from the transcribed text and present in the original document clarify the meaning of "mendicato colore".
I guess we are clear now?

Abbracci,
Sophia

#4: Re: Notary document Author: AetherLocation: Americas, Italy PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:58 am
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Luca,

I better insert here the text of my private message to Liz.
Here is what I said:

"First of all I did not have the full text... at first just the words.
Here is the text in question. Words in Capitals were missing from the transcription. The **** indicate lines not in the original document. They must come from another page?
Now, here from the original document:
"a pretestto, causa ingegno, o' mendicato colore,altrimenti in caso contrario OLTRE ALLA LORO PRECISA OSSERVANZA volevO SINE IN CHE ESSER tenuti****** A TUTTI E SINGOLI DANNI, -----
DE QUALIF ---------------------------
Translation:
Against a pretext, cause, malice, I have artfully modified a questionable action, otherwise to the contrary of their firm agreement I want instead of (they) being responsible... for all and individual damages...
DE Qualif _______________
From old Italian: "Mendicato colore"= to change appearance, to slant.

Translating documents such as this requires more than just knowledge of the meaning of the words. It requires more understanding of the social and cultural conditions... of the time...
Hope we can now close this?
Aether Confused Confused Confused

#5: Re: Notary document Author: LucaLocation: Terni - Italy PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:19 pm
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Ho modificato l'url: prova a vedere se adesso si apre.
Tutto il documento è diviso in 15 foto; fammi sapere se vuoi vederle.
E poi non capisco se ti sei offesa per qualche ragione dipendente da me; non credo... ma può darsi che mi sbagli!

Luca

#6: Re: Notary document Author: CaroleLocation: Valtellina - Near Lake Como PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:33 pm
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Aether wrote:


"....Translating documents such as this requires more than just knowledge of the meaning of the words. It requires more understanding of the social and cultural conditions... of the time...
Hope we can now close this? "
Aether Confused Confused Confused



I understand what you are saying Aether about tranlations. But in all fairness I did my best with a good, clear transcription of a document the kind of which I had never seen before. The same goes for the antiquated use of the Italian language throughout the document.

Being fully cognisant with my limitations in this field I made sure that I wrote this (below) at the start of the post with my translation:

Quote::
Well - for what it's worth - here it is 'warts and all'...
Not the nicest (or easiest) document to translate. If anyone finds any mistakes (and believe me you will...) I'm not too sure that I want to know Embarassed

I did my translation to help those interested members understand the intricacies of the dowry system in Italy in those times. I believe the 'actual document' did not refer to any ongoing family research by any of our members. It was just something Luca kindly provided us with to enable a clearer understanding.

There was never any intention at any time on my part to deceive anyone. I do hope everyone understands that. Sad

#7: Re: Notary document Author: BillieDeKidLocation: Illinois PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:08 pm
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Carole wrote:

I did my translation to help those interested members understand the intricacies of the dowry system in Italy in those times. I believe the 'actual document' did not refer to any ongoing family research by any of our members. It was just something Luca kindly provided us with to enable a clearer understanding.

There was never any intention at any time on my part to deceive anyone. I do hope everyone understands that. Sad

No Carole, no one thinks you were trying to deceive anyone. You do a great job of translating and I know that EVERYONE appreciates your hard work.

#8: Re: Notary document Author: AetherLocation: Americas, Italy PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:20 pm
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To Luca and Carole,

I am not offended, and did not intend to offend anyone. It was my INITIAL MISTAKE - and I SHOULD have known better- NOT to do a translation out of context.

My comments are made in an "academic " context. I am not here to judge any person's ability, not my concern! ONLY to make my POSITION clear!

I hope that all has been said and done!

AETHER

P.S. I better use my nick, as in my account, instead of Sophia. Confused

#9: Re: Notary document Author: AetherLocation: Americas, Italy PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:26 pm
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Luca,

Thank you for offering. At this time I have too much work to finish, and prefer not to take additional tasks. Perhaps in the future.

Abbracci,
Aether Smile

#10: Re: Notary document Author: BillieDeKidLocation: Illinois PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:35 pm
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Aether wrote:
At this time I wrote a quick PRIVATE MESSAGE to Liz with my observations. LIZ kiss could you please post my message, with typos and all?

Sorry Sofia,

My computer was down most of the morning again. My apologies and thank you for posting your response since I couldn't get to my info!!



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