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Page Topic: Ambrogio Bianchi Birth Certificate - Rome/Ferentino
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#1: Ambrogio Bianchi Birth Certificate - Rome/Ferentino Author: debbiemfit PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:14 pm
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Hi all,

My GGP's NYC marriage record in 1905 stated my GGF was born in Bisuschio, which is in Varese, Lombardy region. His parents were Agostino & Maria. He died at 80 years old in 1943 in NYC. His DC states he was born on December 2, 1862. Although his age varies greatly among the census records, as does his immigration date. So I cannot determine which is him.

A search with the parish and the Varese archives did not result in finding his BC. I hired a local historian who did numerous thorough searches onsite at the archives and parish, and she could not find his birth record, or any record of him. She found what we think is the marriage record of his parents, Agostino & Maria in 1860, and the BC of an infant daughter born to them in 1861, who died the following week.

After that, there is no record of Agostino & Maria Bianchi, or any other subsequent children or their deaths in the Varese archives. They disappeared.
She went though every record from 1860 to 1870. She also checked the records of the parish of nearby Pogliana, after it had opened for the deaths of Agostino and Maria.

If Agostino and Maria are my GGF's parents, she can go back several generations. But we cannot find my GGF's birth certificate to verify it!

The historian felt they probably relocated somewhere close by for work, they were stonecutters. There are no immigration records of Ambrogio Bianchi's from the Varese region.

I found a few Ambrogio Bianchi immigration records stating last residence was Ferentino, a short distance from Rome. An older cousin of mine thought his mother had always thought they were from Rome. Perhaps my GGF stated Bisuschio because thats where his family was from, and still considered it home? I don't know ! The marriage record stating he was from Bisuschio was a huge surprise. So, I am switching gears and am now trying to search Rome and Ferentino archives.

Any help finding his BC or providing links to where I can find Ferentino and Rome records online would be greatly appreciated !!

Thank you !

Debbie

#2: Re: Ambrogio Bianchi Birth Certificate - Rome/Ferentino Author: ItalysearcherLocation: Sora, Italy PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:47 pm
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Neither Ferentino nor Rome have civil records prior to 1870 so you would need parish records and those are not on line and probably never will be.
As a professional researcher I would not start a search unless the client had obtained ALL possible records from the USA. Most importantly the naturalization recorod which not only tells what ship he arrived on but also where he was born. Even if he lied on that US document the ship manifest (the correct one) would have his town of birth or last residence.
Too many duplicate names among Italians. You cannot make assumptions you must follow the trail and that starts with the correct ship manifest. If you need help with this contact lostquays @ ymail.com.
If your ancestor turns out to be from Rome or Ferentino I can help with the parish records if necessary.

#3: Re: Ambrogio Bianchi Birth Certificate - Rome/Ferentino Author: debbiemfit PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:30 am
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Hi Ann,

Thanks for your response and information. Unfortunately I am unable to verify which record is his with any certainty, the dates and ages are all over the place. There are no records of an Ambrogio Bianchi traveling from the Varese area in his time frame. There are two that are possibilities traveling from Ferentino in 1903 and 1904, which is much later than he claims to have come to the US. One was traveling with his nephew and was born in 1862. This could be a possible match.
However, the US census all give different ages and immigration dates, making it impossible to know for sure.

In the 1905 marriage record, he claims to be 38, putting his birth in 1867.
In the 1910 census he claims to be 40, putting his birth in 1870, and claims he immigrated in 1882.
In the 1915 census he claims to be 45 and immigrated in 1895.
In the 1925 census he claims to be 62 and immigrated in 1893.
In 1930 census he claims to be 67 and immigrated in 1891.
In 1940 he claims to be 77.
In 1943 at death, 80 yrs old.

He also claims to have naturalized, but there is no record. I also can not find any record of him prior to the 1905 marriage record.

I think there is a possibility that he may have immigrated later than he claims, but was nervous and wanted to make it look like he was there longer. Especially if he claims to have naturalized, he would have had to have been in the US awhile.

It makes sense as he was so much older getting married in 1905, that perhaps he wasn't in the US but a few years. If he was 80 when he died, he was actually 42 when married, not 38.

Since, I don't have any solid information regarding his immigration, I am attempting to follow up with the Ferentino men. I am also surmising he was married in Italy before immigrating, given his age.
So, even if I found a marriage record, tying one of the Ambrogio's to an Agostino and Maria as parents, I might get somewhere.

Given the circumstances, if you have any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate them !

Thank you,

Debbie

#4: Re: Ambrogio Bianchi Birth Certificate - Rome/Ferentino Author: debbiemfit PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:31 am
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Hi Ann,

Thanks for your response and information. Sorry for delay, I didn't check off the notification box.
Unfortunately I am unable to verify which record is his with any certainty, the dates and ages are all over the place. There are no records of an Ambrogio Bianchi traveling from the Varese area in his time frame. There are two that are possibilities traveling from Ferentino in 1903 and 1904, which is much later than he claims to have come to the US. One was traveling with his nephew and was born in 1862. This could be a possible match.
However, the US census all give different ages and immigration dates, making it impossible to know for sure.

In the 1905 marriage record, he claims to be 38, putting his birth in 1867.
In the 1910 census he claims to be 40, putting his birth in 1870, and claims he immigrated in 1882.
In the 1915 census he claims to be 45 and immigrated in 1895.
In the 1925 census he claims to be 62 and immigrated in 1893.
In 1930 census he claims to be 67 and immigrated in 1891.
In 1940 he claims to be 77.
In 1943 at death, 80 yrs old.

He also claims to have naturalized, but there is no record. I also can not find any record of him prior to the 1905 marriage record.

I think there is a possibility that he may have immigrated later than he claims, but was nervous and wanted to make it look like he was there longer. Especially if he claims to have naturalized, he would have had to have been in the US awhile.

It makes sense as he was so much older getting married in 1905, that perhaps he wasn't in the US but a few years. If he was 80 when he died, he was actually 42 when married, not 38.

Since, I don't have any solid information regarding his immigration, I am attempting to follow up with the Ferentino men. I am also surmising he was married in Italy before immigrating, given his age.
So, even if I found a marriage record, tying one of the Ambrogio's to an Agostino and Maria as parents, I might get somewhere.

Given the circumstances, if you have any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate them !

Thank you,

Debbie

#5: Re: Ambrogio Bianchi Birth Certificate - Rome/Ferentino Author: ItalysearcherLocation: Sora, Italy PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:01 am
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Hi Debbie, As I said before, if you need help sorting this out contact Maria at lostquays @ ymail.com. SHe is the expert I use for USA record searches and brick walls. Once you have figured out his town of origin I can help with parish records.

#6: Re: Ambrogio Bianchi Birth Certificate - Rome/Ferentino Author: debbiemfit PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:28 am
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Hi Ann,

Thanks, I may do that, as you can see, their timeline is completely conflicting.

Debbie



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