Luca wrote:

Visto che sai leggere l'Italiano dai un'occhiata a questa pagina: 209.85.135.104/search?...&gl=it Ciao Luca

...and before anyone even thinks about it - no, I'm NOT going to translate that!!!

Good to see there are those familiar with the Catasto's here. Maybe you can answer another question of mine. Often the person is said to 'abita in case propria' which I read as lives in own house, but then goes on to say in the next sentence 'and pays "either a person or church" a set amount of money.

Is this sort of a old fashioned 'mortgage' or debt borrowed on the house ?

The reason why I can't find the distincition is that for example if it is paid to person X and I look at persons X's assets it usually doesn't list this income as an 'asset'.

Prova a postare qualche immagine e vediamo se si riesce a trovare il nesso.

Luca

This is a typical opening statement describing the house.

img261.imageshack.us/i...asalr1.jpg

Potresti mettere tutta la pagina?

Luca

I tried pasting a whole page but the photo size is just too big for this site. The rest of the paragraphs talk about the pieces of land that is owned.

I am not concerned with the translation since I know what it is saying. I just want to know if the payment to Magnifico Ieraci was a loan that he made for the building of the house or was it seperate debt the household paid the person and the church.

What was common practice in those days?

If you would like to post the entire document, you can upload it to photobucket or Image shack. Once you do thet, you can provide a link to the image so it can be viewed in it's entirety. Or you can email it to me, and I can upload it to one of my domains and post the link here for you.

Honestly I don't know how the whole page will help. It is not a question of translation. I know what it says.

It says that the lives in his own house, next to Diego Badalato, and pays a 6 'carlini' (a unit of currency at the time) to a Magnifico Ierace and one 'grano' (another unit) to a church.

The rest of the paragraph is just listing other bits of land that he owns and how much the land is worth.

My question is not what the document says but what does the payment to a particular person mean.

Most of the people in the town lived in their own house and were also paying someone. I notice all the 'Don's' and 'Magnifico's' (upper class) didn't have payments which to me means they owned their house outright.

My question is more a socialogical issue. Did the lower classes ever own their houses or were debts just passed down from generation to generation in a vicious cycle.

Carole wrote:

Luca wrote: Visto che sai leggere l'Italiano dai un'occhiata a questa pagina: 209.85.135.104/search?...&gl=it Ciao Luca ...and before anyone even thinks about it - no, I'm NOT going to translate that!!!

I'd never ask you such a thing

Seriously, you know what I think about translations (I believe I already said it somewhere in the forum). I think everyone that is trying to "rebuild" his own italian genealogy needs to do each possible effort to read docs written in italian (I don't mean manuscripts, of course), because it's a way to be closer to own "roots". Then, if there is something unusual or tangled, the professional translators here on gente are always on (I'm not one of them, clearly, despite what's upon my avatar )

Luca

Luca wrote:

Then, if there is something unusual or tangled, the professional translators here on gente are always on (I'm not one of them, clearly, despite what's upon my avatar ) Luca

I haven't been on in a few days Luca......but if I had been I would have jumped all over you the day you posted this!!! Everyone here DOES consider you and expert translator. You've helped alot of people and you have so much to offer to everyone here and it's greatly appreciated!! Shame on you for thinking otherwise!

Now don't ever think that way again.......we all love you!!

BillieDeKid wrote:

Luca wrote: Then, if there is something unusual or tangled, the professional translators here on gente are always on (I'm not one of them, clearly, despite what's upon my avatar ) Luca I haven't been on in a few days Luca......but if I had been I would have jumped all over you the day you posted this!!! Everyone here DOES consider you and expert translator. You've helped alot of people and you have so much to offer to everyone here and it's greatly appreciated!! Shame on you for thinking otherwise! Now don't ever think that way again.......we all love you!!

I AGREE!!!!! Luca is awesome!

I must admit that for me, working with the other translators here on "Gente" is a pure delight. So often a 'part and parcel' of a translators life is lost through petty rivalries - but the 'team' here - if I may be allowed to call the group that - is indeed awesome. As I said once before "No one person can ever be perfect... but a team CAN!" I firmly believe that. Working together means that one way or another we can both satisfy our membership and help them to learn too.

I have found that Luca's transcriptions of (for me) almost totally illegible documents and also those of ancient documents, have allowed me to produce translations to a fairly reasonable standard. For that I thank him from the bottom of my heart.

All 3 of you - Luca, Livio and you Carole do a great job. I have learned so much from the 3 of you and am very grateful. I would have missed so much without you. I must admit though, I do miss Livio correcting my horrible spelling of Italian names!

Let me jump on the band wagon too! We would be so lost without you..all of you!

I couldn't agree more!! So Livio, Luca and Carole.....all I can say is.....