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Another translation please
For help with translating documents or writing letters.
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Cathy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:39 pm    Post subject: Another translation please Reply with quote

I am so so sorry but I need another translation from a website. I have copied and pasted the text below. This woman looks exactly like my great aunt Carmela! Here is the text:
Irma Scrugli o.s.c.
Nasce a Tropea il 4 settembre 1907 dall’aristocratica famiglia dei conti Scrugli. E’ ricordata ancora oggi come una donna di straordinaria bellezza, che risaltava ancor più per la sua fluente chioma bionda e di grande eleganza pur nella sua semplicità.
Avvertì già dalla prima giovinezza una “voce che imperiosa e implacabile” la chiamava e le diceva “con dolce imperativo: Voglio il tuo cuore, tu devi essere mia, per sempre” (Scritti inediti, 3 settembre 1967). Ebbe come primo direttore spirituale P. Raffaele Pontrandolfi, Guardiano del Convento dei Frati Minori di Tropea che, trasferitosi ad altra sede, rassicurò la sua giovane penitente, dicendole “ Rimanete tranquilla; affidate la vostra anima a Don Francesco Mottola. E’ un santo!”.
Si incontra così con il Venerabile Servo di Dio don Francesco Mottola. Inizia così l’avventura spirituale di due vite, la cui storia si identifica nel comune ideale di una donazione totalitaria a Dio e agli uomini, in una perenne, gioiosa tensione ascetica e mistica.

Thank you so much - I do not know what I would do without your help! kiss

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Another translation please Reply with quote

On it's way - be patient.... kiss

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Another translation please Reply with quote


Translation:

Irma Scrugli o.s.c.
Born in Tropea the 4th September 1907 to the aristocratic family of the counts of Scrugli. She is remembered even today as a woman of extraordinary beauty, who stood out even more for her flowing head of blonde hair and her pure and simple elegance.

She signalled right from her early youth a “voice that imperiously and relentlessly” called and said “with sweet authority: I want your heart, you must be mine, for ever” (Unedited writings, 3rd September 1967). She had as her first spiritual director Father Raffaele Pontrandolfi, Guardian of the Convent of the Minor Brothers of Tropea that, having transferred to another residence, reassured his young repentant sinner, saying “Stay calm, trust your soul to Don Francesco Mottola. He is a saint!”

In this way she met with the Venerable Servant of God don Francesco Mottola. The spiritual adventure of two lives began in this way, that story which is identified in the common aim of an absolute gift to God and to man, in everlasting, joyous ascetical and mystical tension.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Another translation please Reply with quote

Thanks so much Carole! Sorry to be a pain! Embarassed There is so much on the web about them but it is all in Italian. Crying or Very sad

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:18 am    Post subject: Re: Another translation please Reply with quote

Cathy wrote:
Thanks so much Carole! Sorry to be a pain! Embarassed There is so much on the web about them but it is all in Italian. Crying or Very sad

Well think that tells me that you have only three real choices Cathy...

1. You'll have to learn Italian and Latin before Christmas giornale

2. You'll have to move to Italy and 'immerse' yourself kiss

3. (The best one) - You'll have to be a member of "Gente di Mare" for the rest of your life so we can always help you out... peep

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Another translation please Reply with quote

Well, I should learn the language, and I have learned some. However, I really lack the time for serious learning right now. I would have to stop going to my family history center and stop putting the records online to find the time to do that. Although I may do that at some point, I need more records to figure my family out. I have put all the marriages from Tropea during 1811-1817 up online - now I need the time to actually look at them! Sigh....
By the way, I would love the option of living in Italy to immerse myself - how is that spare room at your house? hide Wink Or maybe my employer will transfer me to our location in Roma....

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Another translation please Reply with quote

I am really sorry but I need another translation. I feel bad about asking for so much but I think this may explain a lot to me about my family. I really appreciate this.
Ha goduto nobiltà in Tropea

Non si sanno le origini, le prime notizie trovasi di un Francesco Scrugli Notaio che adì 17 settembre 1567
redasse il verbale con cui si doveva proceder all’elezione dei Sindaci della città così come avveniva nella
città di Cosenza.

Antonio altro Notaio in Tropea nel 1703

Napoleone, figlio di Ignazio, vice Ammiraglio ed aiutante in campo di re Ferdinando IV di Borbone e per
sua nomina fu nominato Conte, titolo tramandabile ai discendenti.

Porfirio, Sindaco della città nel 1571.

Un Giuseppe nato nel 1772 fu alunno meritevole del filosofo Pasquale Galluppi e poi eminente Canonico della
Cattedrale e segretario dell’Accademia degli Affaticati.

Ignazio, fratello del nominato Giuseppe fu Sindaco di Tropea nel 1808 e 1810 addì 31 maggio dello stesso
anno soggiorna in Tropea Gioacchino Murat Re di Napoli dimorando tre giorni; Giuseppe altro Sindaco dal
1862 al 1863; Nicola, dal 1864 al 1869, con lui si estingue il ramo principale, ma il titolo passa al nipote
Antonino erede della famiglia, titolo confermato da Vittorio Emanuele II di Savoia nel 1874. Con Nicola si
cambiò anche la toponomastica della città.

ARME: D’argento a tre scogli al naturale uscenti dal mare di verde, fluttuoso di argento due verso lo
scudo ed uno in mezzo quest’ultimo alquanto abbassato, e sostenente una torre di rosso tor merlata murata
alla ghibellina di quattro pezzi aperta e finestrata di due pezzi di nero.

Motto: Non commovebitur.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Another translation please Reply with quote

Hi Cathy

If no one else has managed to do it before hand, I 'should' have time to look at it tomorrow evening... Sorry but it's pretty late here now and I have to be up early tomorrow - a busy day!

It really does look interesting though!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Another translation please Reply with quote

Thanks Carole! I know it is late there and did not expect anything today. It appears to me that this will give me a better picture of my family. And is that the family motto at the bottom? Confused

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: Another translation please Reply with quote

Noble in Tropea.

The origins are not known, the first news are about Francesco Scrugli, notary, who wrote, on Sep 17 1567, a report about the need to elect the mayors of the town as they were doing in Cosenza.

Antonio another Notary in Tropea in 1703

Napoleone, son of Ignazio, vice Admiral and aide-de-camp of the king Ferdinando IV Borbone and by him nominated Count, title transmittable to the descendants.

Porfirio, Mayor of the town in 1571.

A Giuseppe born in 1772 was meritorious pupil of the pilosopher Pasquale Galluppi and later on eminentcanon of the cathedral and secretary of the Accademia degli Affaticati [literary Accademy of the tired].

Ignazio, brother of the mentioned Giuseppe was mayor of Tropea in 1808 and 1810 on May 31 of the same year Gioacchino Murat king of Naples arrived in Tropea and lived there for 3 days; Giuseppe another mayor from 1862 to 1863; Nicola, from 1864 to 1869, heis the last person in the main branch but the title goes to the nephew Antonino heir of the family, the title was confirmed by Vittorio Emanuele II di Savoia in 1874. With Nicola also the toponomy of the town was ghanged.


ARME: D’argento a tre scogli al naturale uscenti dal mare di verde, fluttuoso di argento due verso lo
scudo ed uno in mezzo quest’ultimo alquanto abbassato, e sostenente una torre di rosso tor merlata murata
alla ghibellina di quattro pezzi aperta e finestrata di due pezzi di nero.

[I need to see the Coat of Arms to translate this, however there are three silver rocks emerging from a green sea... ]

Motto: We will not be moved (affected).

Edited to add:
Carole, I did not mean to steal your job... kiss

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Another translation please Reply with quote

liviomoreno wrote:
Noble in Tropea.

The origins are not known, the first news are about Francesco Scrugli, notary, who wrote, on Sep 17 1567, a report about the need to elect the mayors of the town as they were doing in Cosenza.

Antonio another Notary in Tropea in 1703

Napoleone, son of Ignazio, vice Admiral and aide-de-camp of the king Ferdinando IV Borbone and by him nominated Count, title transmittable to the descendants.

Porfirio, Mayor of the town in 1571.

A Giuseppe born in 1772 was meritorious pupil of the pilosopher Pasquale Galluppi and later on eminentcanon of the cathedral and secretary of the Accademia degli Affaticati [literary Accademy of the tired].

Ignazio, brother of the mentioned Giuseppe was mayor of Tropea in 1808 and 1810 on May 31 of the same year Gioacchino Murat king of Naples arrived in Tropea and lived there for 3 days; Giuseppe another mayor from 1862 to 1863; Nicola, from 1864 to 1869, heis the last person in the main branch but the title goes to the nephew Antonino heir of the family, the title was confirmed by Vittorio Emanuele II di Savoia in 1874. With Nicola also the toponomy of the town was ghanged.


ARME: D’argento a tre scogli al naturale uscenti dal mare di verde, fluttuoso di argento due verso lo
scudo ed uno in mezzo quest’ultimo alquanto abbassato, e sostenente una torre di rosso tor merlata murata
alla ghibellina di quattro pezzi aperta e finestrata di due pezzi di nero.

[I need to see the Coat of Arms to translate this, however there are three silver rocks emerging from a green sea... ]

Motto: We will not be moved (affected).

Edited to add:
Carole, I did not mean to steal your job... kiss

You didn't Livio... kiss I was working on it at the same time as you were. Let's see how different we are - this is a very good excercise for me!
Translations are for whoever is free and is able to do them. It's not a case of 'my job' or 'your job' - it's what/who is best suited - and has the time...

So here goes - here is 'my version'



He enjoyed nobilty in Tropea

The origin is not known, the first news is found of a Notary Francesco Scrugli who on 17th September 1567 drafted the oral form with which they should proceed for the election of the mayors of the city as happened in the city of Cosenza.

Antonio another Notary in Tropea in 1703

Napoleone, son of Ignazio, vice Admiral and aide de camp of King
Ferdinand IV of Bourbon and by his appointment he was named Count, a title that could be handed down to descentants.

Porfirio, Mayor of the city in 1571

One Giuseppe born in 1772 was a worthy pupil of the philosopher
Pasquale Galluppi and then eminent Canon of the Cathedral and secretary of the Academy of the Affaticati ^*^*(see below)

Ignazio, brother of the said Giuseppe was Mayor of Tropea in 1808 and 1810 on 31 May of the same year Gioacchino Murat King of Naples stayed in Tropea for three days; Giuseppe another Mayor from 1862 to 1863; Nicola, from 1864 to 1869, and with him the main branch was extinguished, but the title passed to his nephew and family heir Antonino, the title confirmed by Vittorio Emanuele II of Savoy in 1874. With Nicola the name of the city was also changed.

ARMORIAL BEARINGS: Of Silver at three rocks rising naturally from a green sea, two floating in silver towards the shield and one in the middle, this last slightly lowered, and supporting a walled battlemented tower in the ghibellina style
in four pieces open with two black windows.

Motto: He does not fear.

^*^*
>ACCADEMIA DEGLI AFFATICATI-TROPEA MAGAZINE<

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Another translation please Reply with quote

Embarassed My translation of the motto was 1000% wrong! I found a reference here under number 6, and I think that the correct one is he shall not be moved.

About the sentence related to the Notary Francesco Scrugli: redasse il verbale... Verbale as a noun means: "Minutes of a meeting..."
redasse is the past tense of the verb redigere=To write, to draw up... My understanding of drafting is that it refers to something that is not final, am I wrong?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: Another translation please Reply with quote

liviomoreno wrote:


[I need to see the Coat of Arms to translate this, however there are three silver rocks emerging from a green sea... ]

Motto: We will not be moved (affected).

I found 2 coat of arms images one from Tropea Magazine here:
and the other from an Italian heraldic site:
They are pretty much the same except for the colors. Thank you so much Livio and Carole!! kiss I guess all I need know are more marriage records so I can begin to connect them all together. I have uploaded 6 years of Tropea marriages and only 1 Scrugli marriage was there. Crying or Very sad They were a pretty small family. I am a little confused though - this say Napoleone was given the title but other pages there referred to his father Ignazio as a count and I thought I saw a Duke reference regarding him. The King (Murat) stayed with Ignazio at Palazzo Scrugli... Confused I am getting confused.... Thanks again to you both! Maybe I can get you both to come to Tropea with me!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Another translation please Reply with quote

liviomoreno wrote:
:oops: My translation of the motto was 1000% wrong! I found a reference here under number 6, and I think that the correct one is he shall not be moved.

About the sentence related to the Notary Francesco Scrugli: redasse il verbale... Verbale as a noun means: "Minutes of a meeting..."
redasse is the past tense of the verb redigere=To write, to draw up... My understanding of drafting is that it refers to something that is not final, am I wrong?



This is great Livio - a civilised discussion over translation, but I fear you will have the upper hand on this one as it is from your mother tongue!

So, here are my thoughts....

The MOTTO: As I don't speak Latin I had to try and find an answer. This is what I came up with and where I got it from...
giornale

From: >See second post - from John Hudson....<

Non commovebitur donec despiciat inimicos suos.

This is from Psalm 111 (Catholic reckoning (Psalm 112 in Jewish reckoning): Baetus vir, Vugate text of the Breviarum Romanum). It is the end of verse 8:

...confirmatum est cor eius: non commovebitur donec despiciat inimicos suos.

My monastic diurnal gives this translation of the Latin: ’...his heart is strong, he does not fear, whilst he looketh down upon his enemies.’

The Jewish Publication Society Tanakh gives this translation of the Hebrew original: ’His heart is resolute, he is unafraid; in the end he will see the fall of his foes’.




"...redasse il verbale con cui si doveva proceder..."

Here I took it that he drew up/drafted a report as shown in this first from 'Garzanti' and the second from Chambers Dictionary....

1. 'Garzanti'
redigere
Traduzione v.tr.
1 (compilare, scrivere) to draw* up, to draft, to compile, to write*: - un articolo, to write an article; - un programma, to draw up a programme; - un verbale, to draw up a report (o the minutes); - una sentenza, to write a decision; - un documento davanti a un notaio, to draw up a document before a notary / (comm.) - un bilancio, to strike a balance


2. Chambers Dictionary
>DRAFT<

What do you think? think

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Another translation please Reply with quote

Carole wrote:

What do you think? think

I think that you did a very accurate research to accomplish your job! I simply admire and respect you.

Just for curiosity I would like to know what Luca thinks about Non commovebitur. He is the expert.

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