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unbelivable but true
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ricbru
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:59 am    Post subject: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

Hello all,
today I just got a reply from US Department of Homeland security, who is replying to me after they got my request date 20 july 2007 (about 17 months ago).
The reply states that after a diligent research done on the indexes they stated me that my uncle, brother of my dad, Francesco Paolo BRUNO (aka Frank Paul BRUNO) never naturalized as a US citizen.
I remember when I was a boy his blue passport from USA, and it means that he was a US citizen, also Cathy found later for me on the microfilm his number of citizenship certificate.
Now my question is: how these people work in these offices? neclord
I gave them the exact date and place of birth, he was born in Italy on 1930!!!
They sent me the same reply for my Nicholas BRUNO, brother of my grandpa, born in Italy on 1892
I got his naturalization papers from local library in Monroe, Louisiana.
I'm astonished to receive this kind of very late reply, we live almost on 2009 in the era of computer-internet- and so on, and still US government do give answers like that.
Thanks God there is a forum like Gente where people do their most efforts to help each other!!!!
I would like to know if there is any comment or any experience like mine
Regards
Riccardo

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Riccardo





HELP ME to find the ship manifest of 1902 to USA, about my GGFather Francesco Paolo BRUNO from Trapani (1860/1938)
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Eleven
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

I found out, very early on, that nobody searches the way we do ourselves. When I started genealogy, there was no internet. I learned from books that I bought.

I would go to the New York City public library to look for my people coming into the country. They had the passenger records there. At the same time, the National Archives in Washington DC would do a search for you for free. I would mail them the information and then go look at the library, myself.

If the National Archives found your person, they would send you a letter and if you wanted the record, you had to send them 10 or 15 dollars. But, they gave you a huge copy. Out of all of the people I found...they found only one person. A cousin of my mother. I found my grandparents and their siblings, and my husbands grandfather and his father. They never found them..and some of those people were easy for me to find.

I remember thinking the same thing..what do they have monkeys working there? How could they not find some of these people?

I think, when we search..we search with our hearts. If its out there, we will find it, or never stop until we do. Other people have no interest..so if it doesnt smack them in the face, they wont find it.

I think when I sent for naturalizations, I sent to the county they were naturalized in, not the federal government. I believe, for my father in law, they wanted me to send them proof that he was dead, and proof that I was related to him. They didnt do that when I sent for my grandfathers, tho.

Maybe you can try again by mailing to the county.
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ricbru
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

Eleven wrote:
I found out, very early on, that nobody searches the way we do ourselves. When I started genealogy, there was no internet. I learned from books that I bought.

I would go to the New York City public library to look for my people coming into the country. They had the passenger records there. At the same time, the National Archives in Washington DC would do a search for you for free. I would mail them the information and then go look at the library, myself.

If the National Archives found your person, they would send you a letter and if you wanted the record, you had to send them 10 or 15 dollars. But, they gave you a huge copy. Out of all of the people I found...they found only one person. A cousin of my mother. I found my grandparents and their siblings, and my husbands grandfather and his father. They never found them..and some of those people were easy for me to find.

I remember thinking the same thing..what do they have monkeys working there? How could they not find some of these people?

Yes, I think they are monkeys or not interested in what they do, and I think they are not motivated people or they are stressed as well

Quote::
I think, when we search..we search with our hearts. If its out there, we will find it, or never stop until we do. Other people have no interest..so if it doesnt smack them in the face, they wont find it.

These are true words, but I don't think anyone is allowed to research inside USCIS like you do going and attending New York Library! So they should do their best and not taking too much time. I wish I could work in those places.....I really like to do it

Quote::
I think when I sent for naturalizations, I sent to the county they were naturalized in, not the federal government. I believe, for my father in law, they wanted me to send them proof that he was dead, and proof that I was related to him. They didnt do that when I sent for my grandfathers, tho.

Maybe you can try again by mailing to the county.

Thanks to Billiedekid and to Cathy I was able about 10 months ago to have the complete ICE file of my uncle Francesco Paolo BRUNO.
My great uncle Nicholas BRUNO's naturalization papers (the transcribed text) was kept to Monroe library in Lousiana. USCIS sent me the copy from real records and sent me (as best copy available) a really blurry one. Shocked Shocked Shocked So last June I sent the copies back to them neclord Evil or Very Mad neclord Evil or Very Mad telling them I want a hi quality and readable one because I want to put it in a frame and stick on the wall of my living room. No replies from June to now. Thank you for sharing your experiences, bye Riccardo

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Riccardo





HELP ME to find the ship manifest of 1902 to USA, about my GGFather Francesco Paolo BRUNO from Trapani (1860/1938)
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Cathy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

I'm so sorry Riccardo. On the other hand, it makes you wonder how many people get this letter when their ancestor really naturalized. *wonders what they would say to me - maybe I can qualify for dual citizenship!* Wink

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ricbru
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

Cathy wrote:
I'm so sorry Riccardo. On the other hand, it makes you wonder how many people get this letter when their ancestor really naturalized. *wonders what they would say to me - maybe I can qualify for dual citizenship!* Wink

Cathy, please do not be sorry. It is thanks to u that I got the number of naturalization certificate and Billidekid was able to speed up the process calling often USCIS.

In the event that your ancestor never became a naturalized US citizen it must be proven with a certification of "NO RECORDS" from the following:
1. USCIS, 2. NARA (National Archives), 3. the local County Court and 4. a Census Report from the US Dept. of Commerce.

Just start to try, you never know
bye Riccardo

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Riccardo





HELP ME to find the ship manifest of 1902 to USA, about my GGFather Francesco Paolo BRUNO from Trapani (1860/1938)
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Cathy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

Well, you know he did natualize - I have the original papers. But if they couldn't find yours with the index information, they will never find his!! He lied about his birthdate on the paperwork and he had a common name. They would probably never even look in Atlanta where he naturalized prior to his Army service! Shocked

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ricbru
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

So that is why, it is worth to try, you give them the right name, last name, place of birth (I remember it is stated as Parantoro, you tell them it is Montalto Uffugo, which is true because he was reported to Montalto Uffugo civil record office) and date of birth, and for the rest u know I can help you, this way your dream may come true, who knows!!!
bye Riccardo

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Riccardo





HELP ME to find the ship manifest of 1902 to USA, about my GGFather Francesco Paolo BRUNO from Trapani (1860/1938)
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Cathy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

Very Happy Nice thought Riccardo...but I could never do that. It would be deceptive and dishonest. I know he naturalized so no matter what my government says, I could not lie to the Italian or American governments. hide

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ricbru
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

ops hide shame on me Riccardo Embarassed

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Riccardo





HELP ME to find the ship manifest of 1902 to USA, about my GGFather Francesco Paolo BRUNO from Trapani (1860/1938)
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Cathy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

OH NO!! I did not mean that! I love my Riccardo! kiss I just meant that I would feel guilty! I know the truth. The key word here is guilt! I have saints in the family tree - I have to be a good girl now! Embarassed hide

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ricbru
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

Cathy, everything is ok, no worries, I just gave you a bad idea
I love you too
hugs
Riccardo

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HELP ME to find the ship manifest of 1902 to USA, about my GGFather Francesco Paolo BRUNO from Trapani (1860/1938)
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nuccia
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

I just got home and am reading all this and can't believe they can't find a record for your ancestor! You aren't having any luck with this whole thing, are you? What a horrible experience!

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nuccia
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ricbru
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

Nuccia, not problems, I got everything thanks to all of you, the problem is that they do not know what they are doing, and what they have or not in their files, and we want to talk about their very delayed reply (17 months) of working hard for researching that naturalization paper? this is just ridiculos...

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Riccardo





HELP ME to find the ship manifest of 1902 to USA, about my GGFather Francesco Paolo BRUNO from Trapani (1860/1938)
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JB5150
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

Riccardo,

I just read your message and unfortunately, I am not surprised. I submitted a request to USCIS right around the same time as you did and then I updated it about a month later with some additional information. I eventually received the "certification of non-existence of a record" that I was waiting for, but they did not include the updated information that I had sent them later (an additional possible birth date). I know they received the update because they confirmed that they have a copy of the letter I sent them in their files. I am *still* trying to get an updated certification letter with all of the correct information on it! It's very frustrating-- I totally understand how you feel!

-Jill
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charliemis
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:22 am    Post subject: Re: unbelivable but true Reply with quote

Unfortunately they all share a common heritage ---- they are government employees, who for the most part, the world over don't really like to work too hard and do their job. When I first tried to obtain extracts for some of my ancestors in Corato (BA) I wrote to the Office of the Anagrafe. I explained what information that I needed and that I would be coming to visit in person in a few months. When I arrived in Corato, I arranged for my cousin to go along with me to the Municipio to help me out. The Anagrafe spent 20 minutes telling me and my cousin that all the records were destroyed. I decided not to give up my quest and I wrote again to the Mayor and the Ufficio di Stato Civile ---- since then I have received about 40 extracts (even some I did not ask for like my GF's 1st wife).....same Muncipio, just someone who was willing to do a little work for me. I have sent this gentleman a few small gifts....keychain, baseball cap....and he has really been very helpful....you just to get lucky and find someone who will do their job. I also had some luck with the local county records clerk who volunteered that she had some other docs that I didn't request for my father who became a US citizen in 1942.

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Researching: Corato, Provincia di Bari in Puglia e San Giorgio Albanese, Provincia di Cosenza in Calabria.
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