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Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Translation Help

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Translation Help
For help with translating documents or writing letters.
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Tiger965
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

kiss Thank you Luca!
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Tiger965
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

I FOUND DOMENICA SAPIENZA TODAY! HERE IT IS! Very Happy

img110.imageshack.us/i...icapq9.png

This time I found a Maria Sapienza name on the side and in darker names Alfio Sapienza di Michelangelo ~ Maria Mio? Is this Maria daughter of Michelangelo birth document? Very Happy

img110.imageshack.us/i...nzaah5.png
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Carole
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

Your link just shows black - can you post it again.....

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Tiger965
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

oh no Sad I put it on the tiff format wishing it would come out clearer. Sad I think Imageshack has been not letting me keep Gente' open while downloading the documents. I used to be able to keep both tabs open :/ ~ Rita

Hi Carole, After all that work trying to get it on my flash drive they didn't come out. I have no idea why but I disconnected it correctly. All I have are vertical lines. Crying or Very sad Now I have to do them all over neclord

May I ask if someone could translate what Luca wrote, Please. Very Happy It really would make my day!
Thank you. ~ Rita
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Luca
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

Tiger965 wrote:
I FOUND DOMENICA SAPIENZA TODAY! HERE IT IS! Very Happy

img110.imageshack.us/i...icapq9.png

This time I found a Maria Sapienza name on the side and in darker names Alfio Sapienza di Michelangelo ~ Maria Mio? Is this Maria daughter of Michelangelo birth document? Very Happy

img110.imageshack.us/i...nzaah5.png

From what you say I think it should be the daughter of Alfio Sapienza and Maria Mio, and so sister of the following Carmelo Sapienza:

Quote::
L'anno 1871 il giorno 21 del mese di Luglio alle ore 9 a.m. nella Casa Comunale di Belpasso. Dinanzi a noi Gaetano xxx Consigliere Comunale delegato alla funzione d'Ufficiale dello Stato Civile di questo Comune, provincia di Catania [...] è comparsa Lucia Pappalardo del fu Giuseppe di anni 46 di professione levatrice domiciliata ivi quartiere della Collegiata, la quale avendo assisitito al parto di cui appresso, ci dichiara che nel giorno 20 del corrente mese ed anno alle ore 11 a.m. è nata da Maria Mio del fu Antonio di anni 30 moglie di Alfio Sapienza di Angelo di anni 40 di professione agricolo, seco lui domiciliata nella casa di loro abitazione sita in questo Comune quartiere della Collegiata, ... che ci ha presentato a cui i genitori intendono dare il nome di Carmelo Sapienza ....

If you saw right, now you know that Alfio is brother of Giuseppe and Maria (sometime a person whom -i'm not sure if it's the right pronoun - name is Michelangelo, is called also only Angelo).
But let's wait for the pics.
Ciao
Luca
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Tiger965
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

[quote="Luca"]I found this document that has a Maria Sapienza in it .....
img338.imageshack.us/i...ro1yw1.jpg
img165.imageshack.us/i...ro2nx1.jpg

~Rita
(Look here: [url=http://italiangenealogy.tardio.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=7859/start=75.html]post[/url] )


I don't like writing in English too much hide so i'll give give you a complete [u]transcription [/u]. Then if you cannot understand it ... ask someone for a [u]translation help[/u]

L'anno [b]1871 [/b]il giorno [b]26 [/b]del mese di [b]Marzo [/b]alle ore 10 a.m. nella casa Comunale di [b]Belpasso[/b]. Dinanzi a Noi Salvatore Capoccetto assessore anziano facente le funzioni da Sindaco, ed Ufficiale dello Stato Civile del Comune sudetto, provincia di Catania per l'assenza del titolare è comparso [b]Salvatore Mauro[/b] del fu Antonio d'anni [b]32 [/b]di professione xxx, il quale ha presentato una fanciulla, e ci ha dichiarato che la stessa è nata il giorno d'[b]oggi[/b] alle ore 3 antimeridiane dalla di lui moglie [size=18][b]Maria Sapienza del fu Michelangelo di anni 24[/b][/size], seco lui domiciliata nella cascina xxx di Salvatore Pulvirento in Mascalucia sita in questo territorio contrada Vico Minutrella(?). Egli ha infine dichiarato di dare alla fanciulla il nome di [b]Concetta Mauro[/b]. La quale dichiarazione, e presentazione anzidetta si è fatta alla presenza di Agostino Sambastore(?) del fu Giuseppe d'anni 29 di professione bracciale ivi domiciliato, e di Natale Meotio(?) del fu Domenico d'anni 56 di professione industrioso ivi domiciliato, testimoni dal dichiarante stesso scelti, e retro d'aver data loro lettura del presente atto è stato da me firmato, avendo asserito il dichiarante, e testimoni non saper scrivere. [segue firma]

Ciao
Luca[/quote]

Livio would you please translate this for me. kiss Thank you. ~ Rita
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Tiger965
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

[quote="Luca"][quote="liviomoreno"][quote="Luca"] Si è trattato di un errore dell'ufficiale di Stato Civile perché il nome della levatrice non è Lucia di Stefano ma [b]Carmela [/b]di Stefano (si può vedere dalla dichiarazione di nascita di Rosa img525.imageshack.us/i...sa9hc1.jpg )[/quote]
A me sembra strano un errore dello stato civile! Potrebbero esserci due levatrici, Carmela e Lucia.[/quote]

Strano, ma non impossibile!
Puoi notare come la levatrice Carmela di Stefano abbia [b]63 [/b]anni nel 1887
mentre la "fantomatica" levatrice Lucia di Stefano abbia [b]66 [/b]anni nel 1890
I conti tornano: si può essere confuso avendo (la mamma e la "mammana") in comune il cognome (e forse anche una parentela). Comunque ai fini della ricerca di Tiger965 questo dettaglio ha poca importanza

[quote="Tiger965"]I don't mean to repeat information but I was told that the Civil/State Registration has more information about the parents ages,etc.[/quote]

Don't worry; ask us about everything you need.
Ciao
Luca[/quote
must be my family... Smile


Last edited by Tiger965 on Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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liviomoreno
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:29 am    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

Quote::
L'anno 1871 il giorno 26 del mese di Marzo alle ore 10 a.m. nella casa Comunale di Belpasso. Dinanzi a Noi Salvatore Capoccetto assessore anziano facente le funzioni da Sindaco, ed Ufficiale dello Stato Civile del Comune sudetto, provincia di Catania per l'assenza del titolare è comparso Salvatore Mauro del fu Antonio d'anni 32 di professione xxx, il quale ha presentato una fanciulla, e ci ha dichiarato che la stessa è nata il giorno d'oggi alle ore 3 antimeridiane dalla di lui moglie Maria Sapienza del fu Michelangelo di anni 24, seco lui domiciliata nella cascina xxx di Salvatore Pulvirento in Mascalucia sita in questo territorio contrada Vico Minutrella(?). Egli ha infine dichiarato di dare alla fanciulla il nome di Concetta Mauro. La quale dichiarazione, e presentazione anzidetta si è fatta alla presenza di Agostino Sambastore(?) del fu Giuseppe d'anni 29 di professione bracciale ivi domiciliato, e di Natale Meotio(?) del fu Domenico d'anni 56 di professione industrioso ivi domiciliato, testimoni dal dichiarante stesso scelti, e retro d'aver data loro lettura del presente atto è stato da me firmato, avendo asserito il dichiarante, e testimoni non saper scrivere. [segue firma]
The year 1871 on day 26 month of March at 10 a.m. in the town hall of Belpasso. Before us Salvatore Capoccetto, senior assessor acting as Mayor and Ufficiale dello Stato Civile of the said Comune, province of Catania, being the person in charge (ie the Mayor) absent, appeared Salvatore Mauro son of the late Antonio, aged 32 profession xxx, who has presented a baby girl, and has declared that the baby was born today at 3 a.m. to his wife Maria Sapienza daughter of the late Michelangelo, aged 24, living with him in the dairy farm xxx belonging to Salvatore Pulvirento in Mascalucia situated in this territory quarter Vico Minutrella(?). He also declared that he the baby girl the name Concetta Mauro. This declaration and presentation was made in front of Agostino Sambastore(?) son of the late Giuseppe aged 29 farmhand living here, and of Natale Meotio(?) son of the late Domenico aged 56 profession industrious (???) living here, witnesses chosen by the presenter, and after reading this act, the same was signed by me, the presenter and the witnesses have declared that they are not able to write. [The signature follows]

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Luca
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

Tiger965 wrote:

Hi Luca, my cousin mentioned this to me...
"the words due levatrici, Carmela e Lucia in the document means two midwifes, Carmela and Lucia.
It also lists Lucia's age as 66 in 1890. This cannot be our Lucia who was still having children at this time."
Lucia's mother's name is Domenica Distefano.

Don't worry about the midwifes! They are not important for your research! Anyway I think there is only a midwife named Carmela, the other is only a mistake of the Officier who confused the mother's name (Lucia) with midwife's name Carmela. Livio think could be that there was another midwife called Lucia Di Stefano. But i repeat. Don't worry about the midwifes!
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Luca
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

Tiger965 wrote:
I am also trying to gather Distefano's to find Lucia's sister/brothers as I go through the film,if there are any. Whatever family surnames I can find! Shocked I don't mean to get off track on doing Sapienza. kiss ~ Rita

If you want to try Lucia's sister/brothers you must look for Proietto (this is the real surname of Giuseppe's second wife):

liviomoreno wrote:
1875 January 28th
Giuseppe Sapienza – age 40 – farmer
Born in Massannunziata – living in Belpasso
Son of the deceased Michelangelo Sapienza who lived in Massanunziata? all his life and the deceased Carmela Consoli who lived in Massannunziata all her life

Lucia Proietto – age 23 – farmer
Born in Belpasso – living in Belpasso
Daughter of the deceased Ignazio Proietto who lived in Belpasso all his life and the deceased Domenica Distefano who lived in Belpasso all her life

Witnesses to marriage
Nunzio Paladino – age 46 – shoemaker
Giovanni Fiorentino – age 33 – clerk [impiegato]

I don't know why she was called then whit her mother's surname (I have some ideas, but no one certainty!) but she was Proietto at the moment of her birth). If you want to try also Domenica Distefano family you have to consider that she could be born faraway from Belpasso (and the same for Proietto family too).
Good luck Very Happy

Ciao
Luca
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Tiger965
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

Would someone please translate this. It looks like another Sapienza. Thank you.
img512.imageshack.us/i...nzakr3.jpg
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Luca
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

Would someone please translate this. It looks like another Sapienza. Thank you.
img512.imageshack.us/i...nzakr3.jpg


L'anno 1873 il giorno 13 del mese di Marzo alle ore 10 a.m. nella casa Comunale di Belpasso. Dinanzi a Noi Francesco xxx Sindaco, ed Ufficiale dello Stato Civile di questo Comune, provincia di Catania è comparsa Lucia Pappalardo fu Giuseppe d'anni 50 di professione levatrice ivi domiciliata quartiere della Collegiata, la quale avendo assistito al parto di cui appresso ci dichiara che nel giorno 11 mese Marzo anno corrente alle ore 8 p.m. è nato da Giuseppa Ballia di D. Francesco di anni 34, moglie di Giuseppe Sapienza fu Domenico ( Evil or Very Mad is the other Giuseppe) di anni 37 di professione calzolajo, seco lui domiciliata nella casa di loro abitazione sita in questo Comune quartiere della Collegiata un fanciullo, non fu presentato avendoci xxx dispenzato della presentazione a causa della rigidità del tempo, a cui i genitori intendono di dare il nome di Vittorio .......

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Luca
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

Please Rita, before you post some pic, look very well if it was already translated or writed out Evil or Very Mad
page 11

Bye
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nuccia
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

Rita,

Can I ask to to please have a look and perhaps re cap some of the info here on one post? I just realized there is 12 pages to this thread and I'm lost! Perhaps others feel the same?

Ok, so just give us a run down on what you have confirmed..I know there is a lot of information here and I would hate to reinvent the wheel.


Thanks! Very Happy

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nuccia
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation Help Reply with quote

Actually, I thought about some of the things posted here and I realized this might be helpful. This is the translation of the birth act (more or less with some minor variations).

Translation of Birth Act

By replacing the names, you should be able to figure out what most records say. This is a good way to determine whether someone may be related to you or to your ancestors.

I think you are trying to undertake too much on at once. You may want to break things down a bit so you won't be so overwhelmed. You need to sit down a define your research goals and then, starting with yourself, work backwards one by one. I found this is the most effective way to organize oneself, otherwise you will be bouncing around records and not be able to piece anything together.

Maybe others would like to offer their input?

Hope this helps a bit.

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