Many letters NO RESPONSES!

lilbees · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: Many letters NO RESPONSES!

I guess today is my day to express my frustration.......I have written to many communes for information/records with little or no response. I waited 3, 4, 6 months so I was not impatient. When I was frustrated to last time I hired someone to followup on at least 1 of my requests. Very efficiently the task was accomplished but in the process I learned that the Civil offices had in fact my requests but failed to answer until the professional made the inquiry. Since my funds are limited I have not been able to proceed with this same process with my other requests. I know the individual would be quite successful.

There had been an earlier discussion on the forum about many communes not being cooperative but if a professional researcher made the request or knew someone personally to contact they were usually successful. If I could express my frustrations to an authority that would listen I would. And best of all to have my requests honored.

Yes, in all cases, I did do followup letters but still no response. I have written to Parish priests, again with no responses.

I would love to share any information I receive but I have virtually nothing.

After receiving the original document from the individual I hired, I received a record of death which had the correct names of my great, great grandparents. So I resubmitted my request with the correct names pointing out the error in my original request thanking them for the original work they had done. Again, no response.

Thanks for listening.

lilbees
P.S. Their are no LDS films for the region I am working with.

Carole · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Many letters NO RESPONSES!

lilbees,
This is happening so often that it is NOT funny.

The case of James Bianco too, who finally got a response - hand written and full of errors - is another example of the lacksadaisical and careless way many Comunes deal with the public... I gave him some advice, all-be-it tinged with some doubt if it would work in certain circumstances.

But I think that it may be an idea if one of our 'mother tonge' Italians drafted a letter which we could use for our "Gente" members to write to 'a Mayor' of 'a Comune' voicing the concern generated by the clerks of the said Comune ignoring requests from family members overseas for documents.

Included in that 'template' letter could be the timescales that Comunes are obliged to meet with the provision of documents...

I would be interested to know if you any others feel that producing such a template may be useful.

lilbees · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Many letters NO RESPONSES!

Carol, I would be willing to try anything if it is not too costly.

lilbees

PS I would certainly use whatever template someone can come up with

ricbru · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Many letters NO RESPONSES!

Hello,
it is also difficult for a genealogist when it is time to deal on the phone with civil record offices of Italy.
Sometimes I have to call and call again to speed up the process.
One time I calledone of the state archive of north of Italy, it took me 100 days to get a document for a client.
Also I suggest you not to write anymore, don't write every single month, just wait.
I don't remember if you had put right names, and right dates of birth, marriage or death.
Maybe you put just year range, and sometimes people working with the registrar can not help you because there are not 10 year alphabetical indexes for birth, marriage and death.
It also depends if civil record office still has all the records, or if the records were destroyed during WWII
For sure if you give few and not certain details to them, people working at civil record office are not paid by the government to get crazy and find the records about there are not enough informations of.
They are paid by the government to issue certificate and records of what you know all the infos of.
You can alsways choose to send someone to look up for you (anyone is allowed to make genealogy researches) or you can come in person.
I know it is difficult for you, but at least you know that
I'm sure you also knowthat genealogy researches takes a life.
I'm also frustrated with my personal research, and I know many informations were lost forever
I hope I was clear and you understood
kisses and hugs
Riccardo

Luca · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Many letters NO RESPONSES!

Prego Carole, se può, di tradurre.
Le cose non sono così semplici in Italia. Ci sono uffici per ogni esigenza (anche per i reclami) ma spesso... non funzionano o non hanno effetivi poteri sanzionatori.
Anche delle lettere precompilate rischiano di non essere adatte allo scopo. Spesso ciò che rsulta indispensabile è una telefonata, ma fatta da qualcuno che parli italiano e che sappia cosa chiedere Crying or Very sad

E a volte, per ciò che ha spiegato Riccardo, ciò non basta.
Se vuoi mandarmi un PM con tutte le informazioni posso provare a telefonare io al tuo posto. Non sono sicuro che otterremo risultati, ma possiamo provare.

Luca

ricbru · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Many letters NO RESPONSES!

Luca,
a casa qui con me ho una busta piena zeppa di lettere che libees ha inviato a tutti i comuni possibilmente coinvolti con la sua genealogia, dove lei ripete sempre la stessa richiesta.
Si l'unica cosa è infatti telefonare e sollecitare, spesso non funzione e comunque non è semplice
ciao Riccardo

lilbees · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Many letters NO RESPONSES!

Dear Riccardo,

I know it is difficult for you and takes a lot of time. You are very much appreciated. You work very hard for your clients as I can speak from my experience with you. You are very conscientous in keeping the clients well informed. I guess it would be nice to have some kind of response though from the Communes even if it says "I am looking" or "I need more information".

It is when a request goes into a void and not knowing if you sent it to the right person or not with the right information.

At least with Tunisia, they may be slow in responding but I did receive an acknowledgement of my request. It took at least 6 months to receive my first packet, but requests I have made since then have taken much less time.

Because of the information I received I found my family increased greatly and not from distant cousins but to 1st and second cousins. Found grand aunts and uncles and was very pleased to learn about them.

The only difficulty I have now is finding the contemporary generation. No phonebooks available to access for information like the PageinBlanc in Italy itself. Using the Tunisian phonebook requires so much exact information. It is not enough to just put in the Surname or look within a commune. The LDS site enabled me to write my communications in French. I do send an email and a letter to the Prelature of Tunis. More effective than just doing the letter. I did learn there is only one clerk handling most of the requests so it is slow.

lilbees

stevenspringer · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Many letters NO RESPONSES!

look at the bright side... your waitin for something over seas.... I been waiting a year for documents from new jersey and they still havnt gotten back to me after numerous phonecalls i keep getting excuses, cheer up. im sure you'll get this taken care of Wink

me... im not so lucky and ill get denied with an excuse LOL

Carole · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Many letters NO RESPONSES!

Luca wrote:

Prego Carole, se può, di tradurre.
Le cose non sono così semplici in Italia. Ci sono uffici per ogni esigenza (anche per i reclami) ma spesso... non funzionano o non hanno effetivi poteri sanzionatori.
Anche delle lettere precompilate rischiano di non essere adatte allo scopo. Spesso ciò che rsulta indispensabile è una telefonata, ma fatta da qualcuno che parli italiano e che sappia cosa chiedere Crying or Very sad

E a volte, per ciò che ha spiegato Riccardo, ciò non basta.
Se vuoi mandarmi un PM con tutte le informazioni posso provare a telefonare io al tuo posto. Non sono sicuro che otterremo risultati, ma possiamo provare.

Luca

Things aren't quite that simple in Italy. There are offices for every requirement (even for complaints) but often... they don't work or they don't have approval powers.
Even pre-prepared letters risk not fitting the scope required. Often what results in being indispensible is a telephone call, but done by someone who speaks Italian and who knows what to ask for.
And sometimes, for what Riccardo explained that is still not enough.
If you want to send me a PM with all the information I can try and telephone in your place. I'm not certain that I will get any results, but we can try.
Luca

ricbru · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Many letters NO RESPONSES!

lilbees wrote:

Dear Riccardo,

I know it is difficult for you and takes a lot of time. You are very much appreciated. You work very hard for your clients as I can speak from my experience with you. You are very conscientous in keeping the clients well informed. I guess it would be nice to have some kind of response though from the Communes even if it says "I am looking" or "I need more information".

It is when a request goes into a void and not knowing if you sent it to the right person or not with the right information.

At least with Tunisia, they may be slow in responding but I did receive an acknowledgement of my request. It took at least 6 months to receive my first packet, but requests I have made since then have taken much less time.

Because of the information I received I found my family increased greatly and not from distant cousins but to 1st and second cousins. Found grand aunts and uncles and was very pleased to learn about them.

The only difficulty I have now is finding the contemporary generation. No phonebooks available to access for information like the PageinBlanc in Italy itself. Using the Tunisian phonebook requires so much exact information. It is not enough to just put in the Surname or look within a commune. The LDS site enabled me to write my communications in French. I do send an email and a letter to the Prelature of Tunis. More effective than just doing the letter. I did learn there is only one clerk handling most of the requests so it is slow.

lilbees

Dear lilbees,
first of all, thank you very much for the nice words to me.
They made me proud of what I do.
Yes we are here to help each other, to give suggestions, to be professional genealogist and researcher, to give services, in one word to helps.
Unfortunately there are local civil record offices, local state archive and military districts in Italy that work great, and there are other that just stink.
Unfortunately Italy is a very burocratic country, and so that is why things are so slowly.
After that you need to know that sometimes there is not money to reply to everyone in the world looking for genealogy records or because starving trying to get the birth record of ancestor and become an italian citizen.
Sometimes several records are destroyed forever so it is almost impossible to find what you try to look for, from another country.
Sometimes you find people working at civil record office, local state archive and military districts (and parishes too) overwhelmed of requests from all over the world, so they are very stressed and not able to reply in time because there are problems and barriers.
Unfortunatley sometimes you find lazy people working in these office that make things go worse.
I hope one day everything will be changed, only who love genealogy can help each other, doing research on LDS microfilm and put everything on line.
This means volounteers should spend most of they private and free time to do that for the global community.
One day I hope I will make the list of the best and worst local civil record office, local state archive, military districts and parishes, so you can have an idea of what you will go thru.
kisses and hugs
Riccardo

lilbees · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Many letters NO RESPONSES!

Bravo, especially to Riccardo, and all professional researchers out there...............you are all wonderful and hopefully appreciated as you should be.

I am hoping by finding a contemporary niece or nephew I can learn more information about my family until someday maybe I might receive some records.

lilbees

Carole · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Many letters NO RESPONSES!

Well said - both Riccardo and Luca.

Yes there are difficulties when dealing with the state authorities here - that is also often true of many other countries too. But the replies here from the two guys do point out the glaring differences in the level of competency (and willingness - or lack of it) to help anyone.

Fortunately not every Comune is the same though. Just cross your fingers that when the need arises you get a 'good one'!