x
Toggle Content Register or Login  -  December 17, 2024, 1:51 am
Toggle Content User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: LucilleDZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 2016

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 105
Total: 105
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Stories Archive
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: My Account
15: Community Forums
16: Statistics
17: Community Forums
18: My Account
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: My Account
32: Community Forums
33: Photo Gallery
34: My Account
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Photo Gallery
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Statistics
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Photo Gallery
86: My Account
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: My Account
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Toggle Content Main Menu
Toggle Content Last Posts
Last 10 Forum Messages

translation help needed please
Last post by yesindd in Translations on Jul 15, 2024 at 20:59:53

bocca
Last post by tennino in General Discussion Groups on Jan 16, 2021 at 15:56:41

Towns in Frosinone that were part of former Vatican States a
Last post by Italysearcher in Central Italy on Feb 19, 2019 at 08:15:58

Dual Citizenship
Last post by Curci-Ghio in General Discussion Groups on Nov 18, 2018 at 14:30:54

Please Help Translate Letter
Last post by nuccia in Translations on Oct 20, 2018 at 06:18:43

Family in Cittanova
Last post by russojoseph1 in Translations on Oct 14, 2018 at 12:28:20

DNA Testing
Last post by nuccia in General Discussion Groups on Sep 29, 2018 at 10:39:30

Trento -Atto di Nascita - Frazione di Poia, Comune di Comano
Last post by exevans in Northern Italy on Mar 28, 2018 at 00:45:37

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 12:58:50

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 12:53:38

Toggle Content Help Support this Site
Please support GentediMareGenealogy
Help us by supporting the future development of this site, or simply to say thank you.
Toggle Content EStore
Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Can someone read this?

     Forum FAQ   Search   Log in to check your private messages   Login  
Can someone read this?
For help with translating documents or writing letters.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:51 am    Post subject: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Can someone help with translating this? I don't need it word for word, but I can't make out the body of this translation..

mofrad.net/ardore/Nati/1815/079.jpg

Thanks Very Happy

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

It's a birth act concerning an abandoned infant.
Tomorrow i'll provide you with a complete transcription.

Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
mary
Mem
Mem


Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Posts: 77
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Nuccia,

Catarina Bruzzese, age 50, midwife, living in Ardore declared that this same day (Dec. 28, 1815) at 12:00 o'clock there was placed at her residence a male child clothed in artichoke-coloured clothing and without any apparent mark on his body, ? ? ?. After having visited (examined?) him, we recognized him as being a male and that he seemed to be 4 or 5 months old. He was given the name Bruno Giuseppe.

Maybe someone else can figure out the few words that I couldn't.

Mary
Back to top
View user's profile
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Thank you Luca and Mary. I have never seen a birth act like this before. I find it interesting..sad, but interesting.

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

mary wrote:
Nuccia,

Catarina Bruzzese, age 50, midwife, living in Ardore declared that this same day (Dec. 28, 1815) at 12:00 o'clock there was placed at her residence a male child clothed in artichoke-coloured clothing and without any apparent mark on his body, ? ? ?. After having visited (examined?) him, we recognized him as being a male and that he seemed to be 4 or 5 months old. He was given the name Bruno Giuseppe.

Maybe someone else can figure out the few words that I couldn't.

Mary

Mary,

rather than carciofi I read cenciosi, so I would translate
ragged clothing Wink

Luca, what's your opinion Question

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:18 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Numero d'ordine 79.
L'anno 1815, ventotto del mese di dicembre avanti di noi Giuseppe Morando sindaco ed ufficiale dello Stato Civile del Comune di Ardore, provincia di Calabria Ultra è comparsa Caterina Brazzese di anni 50 di professione levatrice domiciliata in Ardore, ed ha dichiarato che questo stesso giorno, alle ore 12 è stato esposto nella casa di sua abitazione un fanciullo ravvolto in alcuni pannilini tutti cenciosi, e senza alcun segno apparente sul corpo, tale come ci si presenta e dopo di averlo visitato l'abbiamo riconosciuto che era maschio, e che compariva di avere l'età di 4 in 5 mesi, a cui è stato dato il nome di Bruno Giuseppe.
La presentazione, e dichiarazione è stata fatta alla presenza di Giuseppe Xxx di anni 32 di professione civile, domiciliato in Ardore e di Domenico Morando di anni 30 di professione civile domiciliato in Ardore strada lo stretto(!).
Il presente atto è stato letto tanto al dichiarante che ai testimoni, ed indi firmato da noi.

Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Luca, ogni volta che leggo una tua trascrizione debbo togliermi il cappello (che non porto)!
Ma esisteva già la parola "pannilini"? Io tendevo a leggere "panni lisi"

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Lascia stare il cappello... che tanto siamo in due a non portarlo!!!
Non so se la parola pannilini esistesse o meno, però se guardi la "s" nelle altre parole sembra ben diversa; io l'ho intesa nel senso di "panni di lino" che al plurale forma questa strana parola "pannilini". Però, come si dice in questi casi, sono giusto i miei 2 cents!

Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
mary
Mem
Mem


Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Posts: 77
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Thanks again, Livio and Luca for setting me straight. I tip my imaginary hat to you too. I don't wear one either, except a woollen one in winter when it's -10-20C.

I knew that "artichoke coloured" was probably not right, and I did look up
"cenciosi" in my Italian-English dictionary, but the word wasn't in there.

I have no illusions that my translations are perfect, I leave that to the Italian Italians, but I couldn't resist trying since this is a document from my old hometown (I left when I was 10).

One thing I am sure of, the midwife's name is Bruzzese and the mayor is Marando..

Does anyone have any insight as to how foundlings were given last names? Could Bruno have been given as a surname to the child? Quite a few years ago we knew a man whose last name was Salvatore. When we asked how come he had a first name as a last name he said that he was an orphan, and that's how orphans were named. I don't remember what area in Italy he came from.

Mary
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Mary, your translation was very accurate. I jumped in just because the "artichoke" colour sounded weird...
I agree with you that the midwife's name is Bruzzese but I have some doubt about the mayor's name.

About the child's name I believe that the Bruno Giuseppe is the first name. The document does not show a surname... All the names are written as first-last, therefore Bruno cannot be the surname.

Usually fundlings were given last names such as Esposito, PregaDio (pray god), LaudaDio (praise god), Diotallevi (god raise you)...

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

I think that such a document it's not easy for a non-italian (or for an ex italian Wink )... so your translation was great. I know that Nuccia can understand italian so i thought that she could appreciate a transcription.
About surnames: it's highly probable that the midwife surname was Bruzzese, but it's not impossible that it was Brazzese; the same for the Mayor. Bruno could be either a name or a surname, maybe Nuccia can tell us if this was the surname that remained to the child for the rest of his life or not.

Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

The mayor's name IS Marando for certain.. that much I am sure of. But I was also wondering what the last name of the child was. Without an indici, (this year doesn't have one) there is no way to make sure. Maybe he took the name Bruzzese? This has happened on some of the other documents we've seen, hasn't it Mary?

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
mary
Mem
Mem


Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Posts: 77
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

From the Ardore Birth Acts that I've transcribed, there doesn't seem to be a pattern as to how foundlings and illegitimate children were dealt with.

In one year, the same woman found 2-3 newborns on her doorstep (I wonder if she was designated by the authorities for this job), gave them names and last names, went and registered them, and was given the job of taking them to the orphanage in another town.

I've found that in most cases, if they knew who the mother was, the child was given the mother's last name, but 1823 was different and it disturbs me. I'm hoping that someone tells me that I've misunderstood.

Ardore Nati, 1823, #4, 50, 101. Even though the mothers of these children were known, they were given the last name "Spurio/a", which a check on Google tells me that it means "bastardo" or "illegittimo". Another quick check to see if there are actual people with that surname in that area and I found several. It saddens me to think that these children had to go through life with such a last name and not being able to hide the fact that they were illegitimate.

One happy finding. For a few years I kept coming across the name of a certain midwife, Rosa Maria Campagna. Then, in 1903, I came across her Death Act which stated "genitori ignoti" (unknown parents). I was gratified to know that despite her beginning, she was able to have a profession. She must have been brought up by very supportive adoptive parents.

Nuccia, I can't say I remember a case where they were given the midwife's surname. If a midwife was involved, they knew the mother's surname and gave it to the baby. Sometimes the foundlings were given the name of the little area they were found in. I'll pay more attention to such cases from now on.

Mary
Back to top
View user's profile
BillieDeKid
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Oct 26, 2007
Posts: 1221
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Mary thats very interesting. I have found Spurio's in my town too.

_________________
Elizabeth
Brognaturo On Line
Brognaturo Civil Records
Mangiardi, Tedeschi/Tedesco, Zangari, Coda, DeFrancesco, Ierulli, Bava, Daniele, Valente
Back to top
View user's profile
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

I am trying to entering all these names, people and ages into a group database (ok..I should be finished in about 12 years) so I am going to keep a eye out for this child...I am really curious about what happened to him. As for Spurio and the 1923 records, I also noticed the same thing. Lets see what the next few years are like. I will hopefully upload them this week or next.

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
  Page 1 of 1All times are GMT - 4 Hours

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

  
 
Jump to:  



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Hosted By Site5.com
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of Gente di Mare Genealogy.
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the opinions of the poster.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy
TCD_ItalianGene © Gente di Mare Genealogy