Help with translation

tjbrn · Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:09 pm Post subject: Help with translation

I'm having difficulty with this document. It may connect members of ancestors that I have suspected ought to be connected. It would be great if this is a link which helps me make that connection.

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Luca · Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation

Coming soon... Wink

Luca · Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation

You can understand italian, isn't it?
Si tratta della dichiarazione rilasciata (ad uso di matrimonio) dal Protonotario Apostolico (nonché parroco e canonico) della chiesa madre e parrocchiale di Monreale che attesta l'esistenza nel libro dei battesimi, in data 28 Aprile 1775, della registrazione della nascita di Girolamo, Giuseppe, Vincenzo Lascala, figlio di Giuseppe e Giuseppa [il cognome della madre non c'è]. I padrini furono Tommaso Turdo, figlio del fu Vincenzo e della vivente Anna, e la moglie Mattia Romano, figlia del fu Ignazio e della vivente Agnese.
L.

tjbrn · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Help with translation

Thanks, Luca, your translation was a great help. I was hoping that the information contained in the document would provide further clues to ancestors; unfortunately, they are not related.

I do have two documents which appear to contain conflicting information. The first is a baptismal document and I don't know which date applies to the record.

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The second is presumably a death document which appears to bear a date of 1791. This doesn't seem to correspond with the facts on the baptismal document. If leonardo Licata died in 1791, it conflicts with the baptismal document. I'm confused javascript:emoticon('post',%20'message',%20':?')

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Luca · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation

tjbrn wrote:

...I do have two documents which appear to contain conflicting information. The first is a baptismal document and I don't know which date applies to the record.

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La cosa è un po' strana...
Giuseppe Licata nasce il 13 (o meglio, il 12) Dicembre 1787 e in data 8 Agosto 1807 viene redatto un primo documento (probabilmente a scopo di matrimonio) in cui si attesta la presenza della registrazione del battesimo di Giuseppe nel libro dei battezzati della parrocchia di San Biagio. Subito dopo compare un'altra data (sembra il 12 luglio 182(?)1) che dovrebbe essere quella in cui il sacerdote Ignazio Reitano dichiara di aver "estratto" queste informazioni dai documenti della curia di San Giuseppe (Jato?). La cosa strana è che questa data si trova in un punto del documento che confonde le idee e inoltre non si capisce che ruolo ha l'altro sacerdote che compare in fondo al documento (Giuseppe Laudato, anche se il cognome non è sicuro al 100%). Boh!!! Rolling Eyes

Luca · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation

tjbrn wrote:

The second is presumably a death document which appears to bear a date of 1791. This doesn't seem to correspond with the facts on the baptismal document. If leonardo Licata died in 1791, it conflicts with the baptismal document. I'm confused javascript:emoticon('post',%20'message',%20':?')

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Leonardo La Licata era il padre di Giuseppe e morì effettivamente nel 1791 (4 anni dopo la nascita di Giuseppe). All'atto del matrimonio di Giuseppe (che è probabilmente avvenuto nel 1807) lo stesso deve presentare il certificato di morte del padre per dimostrare che non poteva ricevere il suo assenso al matrimonio in quanto, appunto, era già morto da vari anni.
L.

tjbrn · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation

Thanks, Luca. Giuseppe Licata may have married around that 1807 but I don't have any documents to corroborate that--too early for the LDS records. I do have Giuseppe's death certificate - 1848

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And a marriage certificate in 1841

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Aside from the confusion on the birth date many of the other facts seem to fall in order. I have the allegati for the marriage in 1841 and there is one document which refers to both bride and groom as having been previously married so it is possible.

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Luca · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation

Allora tutto fila: la data non è 12 luglio 1821 ma 1841 ed è il documento che attesta il battesimo di Giuseppe desunto, però, non direttamente dal registro dei battesimi ma dalla documentazione allegata al processetto relativo al primo matrimonio di Giuseppe stesso (quello celebrato nel 1807). Tra le carte del processetto del 1841 dovresti aver trovato anche il certificato che attesta la morte della prima moglie, o sbaglio?

L.

tjbrn · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation

I didn't see one Luca, but I'll check again on Tue when I go back to the Family History Center to review microfilm. You mentioned an 1821 date, I didn't understand what that referred to.

BillieDeKid · V.I.P. Joined: Oct 26, 2007 Posts: 1221 Location: Illinois

Tom he put a question mark by it on his first translation because he couldn't read it clearly (I believe) and he later corrects the date to be 1841.

tjbrn · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation

Thanks, Elizabeth, I overlooked the "not 1821 but 1841". I hope I can find a trace of the first wife but the allegati are not always as complete as I had hoped they would be.

BillieDeKid · V.I.P. Joined: Oct 26, 2007 Posts: 1221 Location: Illinois

I have the same problem with the allegati and processetti records too Tom.....missing information.

Luca · Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:25 am Post subject: Re: Help with translation

BillieDeKid wrote:

Tom he put a question mark by it on his first translation because he couldn't read it clearly (I believe) and he later corrects the date to be 1841.

tjbrn · Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation

Luca, your comment regarding Giuseppe's first wife prompted me to search through the documents I have collected. Since I photograph everything that might be relevant to my research, I may have photos of documents that I may not review whenever I make new discoveries. This death document appears to be for Giuseppe Licata's first wife although the age of the deceased which is listed can't be correct if the first marriage occurred in 1807.
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I also reviewed the allegati of 1841 and found the extract of the above document.

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It would help if I could find Mattia's birth or baptismal record. Sad

Luca · Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Help with translation

Le soluzioni sono due:
1) Non è lo stesso Giuseppe Licata
2) Quella del 1841 non è la seconda moglie, ma la terza!!! Shocked

L.