x
Toggle Content Register or Login  -  December 19, 2024, 12:05 pm
Toggle Content User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: LucilleDZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 2016

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 295
Total: 295
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Stories Archive
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: My Account
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: My Account
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Stories Archive
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: My Account
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Photo Gallery
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: My Account
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Statistics
135: Photo Gallery
136: My Account
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: My Account
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: My Account
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Stories Archive
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: Home
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Home
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: My Account
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Home
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Statistics
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Statistics
293: My Account
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Toggle Content Main Menu
Toggle Content Last Posts
Last 10 Forum Messages

translation help needed please
Last post by yesindd in Translations on Jul 15, 2024 at 20:59:53

bocca
Last post by tennino in General Discussion Groups on Jan 16, 2021 at 15:56:41

Towns in Frosinone that were part of former Vatican States a
Last post by Italysearcher in Central Italy on Feb 19, 2019 at 08:15:58

Dual Citizenship
Last post by Curci-Ghio in General Discussion Groups on Nov 18, 2018 at 14:30:54

Please Help Translate Letter
Last post by nuccia in Translations on Oct 20, 2018 at 06:18:43

Family in Cittanova
Last post by russojoseph1 in Translations on Oct 14, 2018 at 12:28:20

DNA Testing
Last post by nuccia in General Discussion Groups on Sep 29, 2018 at 10:39:30

Trento -Atto di Nascita - Frazione di Poia, Comune di Comano
Last post by exevans in Northern Italy on Mar 28, 2018 at 00:45:37

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 12:58:50

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 12:53:38

Toggle Content Help Support this Site
Please support GentediMareGenealogy
Help us by supporting the future development of this site, or simply to say thank you.
Toggle Content EStore
Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Question about records

     Forum FAQ   Search   Log in to check your private messages   Login  
Question about records
For help with translating documents or writing letters.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

If the baby was already still born, then there would be no death record. It would be recorded on the birth act (as it was) as a still born. At least, this has been my experience so far.

Eight months apart is not really unheard of... It can happen. I think Luca is right. We would need more information on this one.

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Parents names for Salvatore Monte:
Gaetano Monte and Teresa Santangelo.
Salvatore Monte was born in Belmonte Mezzagno although he married Anna Licata in San Giuseppa. Carmela who is mentioned in the letters is the oldest child and the one who returned to Belmonte after a short stay in America. The reasons for Carmela's return to Sicily are the stuff of family gossip.

Parents names for Anna Licata:
Calogero Licata and Maria Lo Vecchio.
Anna Licata was born in San Giuseppe Jato in 1865 and died in the US in 1956. As a child I remember members of my grandmother's family coming to visit her in Salem, NJ. We lived across the street from my grandmother, my Uncle Joe lived beside my grandmother and my Aunt Josie lived beside my Uncle Joe. My Aunt Anna lived on the same street just a block away. There was hardly a day when I didn't spend time at my grandmother's house as a child so the odds are quite good that I met most of her family with the exception of Carmela and her father. Sorry, I got carried away there. It's surprising what you can come up with when you start connecting memories.

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:40 am    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Sorry for italian.

Il fatto che tu, Tom, già conosca i nomi dei genitori di Salvatore ed Anna facilità ma non risolve definitivamente il problema. Cioè: dovresti provare con i registri parrocchiali per verificare se è riportato sul battesimo di Calogero e Giuseppa anche il nome dei nonni, così sarai certo al 100% se ci sia omonimia fra due coppie (anche se io penso che sia semplicemente un parto prematuro di 6-7 mesi). Prova comunque a cercare la nascita di un altro Calogero nel 1899 o 1900; penso che dovresti trovarlo.

Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

The consensus seems to be that church records will be more useful in answering the questions raised regarding the children I've mentioned in this thread. I welcome advice on obtaining copies of church records.

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
Sorry for italian.

Il fatto che tu, Tom, già conosca i nomi dei genitori di Salvatore ed Anna facilità ma non risolve definitivamente il problema. Cioè: dovresti provare con i registri parrocchiali per verificare se è riportato sul battesimo di Calogero e Giuseppa anche il nome dei nonni, così sarai certo al 100% se ci sia omonimia fra due coppie (anche se io penso che sia semplicemente un parto prematuro di 6-7 mesi). Prova comunque a cercare la nascita di un altro Calogero nel 1899 o 1900; penso che dovresti trovarlo.

Ciao
Luca

Translation:
The fact is that you, Tom, already knowing the names of Salvatore and Anna's parents will facilitate but not solve the problem once and for all. That is: you need to try with the parish registers to verify if the names of the grandparents are reported on the baptism records of Calogero and Giuseppa, that way you will be 100% certain if there is, that they happen to have the same name as another couple (even if I think that it is simply a case of a premature birth of 6-7 months). But try looking for the birth of another Calogero in 1899 r 1900; I think you should find him.
Ciao,
Luca

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Il problema non è che i registri parrocchiali sono più utili, ma che sui documenti civili che tu hai postato, il nome dei nonni non c'è, per cui (anche se ho già detto che non credo ci fossero due coppie omonime) per essere maggiormente sicuri si può vedere se sui registri parrocchiali c'è questa indicazione (ma non è scontato che tali informazioni vi siano).
Dove siano questi registri (in riferimento a S. Giuseppe Jato) io non lo so; spero che altri possano aiutarti.

Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Some clarifications (They are a little articulated so I need to do them in italian; then if you can't understand it, tell me and I'll try a translation).

Ci sono 2 problemi separati.
Il primo è stabilire se potevano esserci 2 differenti coppie con lo stesso nome (io lo ritengo improbabile). Per chiarire questo particolare potresti consultare i registri dei matrimoni e vedere se ci sono due matrimoni con gli stessi nomi (ma non è detto che possano essersi sposati nello stesso posto e, per giunta, non sappiamo neanche il periodo nel quale questi potrebbero essersi celebrati). Quindi rimane valida l'alternativa, riportata sopra, di consultare (se è possibile trovarli sui microfilm) i registri parrocchiali.
Il secondo è stabilire quando è nato Calogero. Per ottenere una risposta puoi provare a consultare tutti i registri dei nati antecedenti e successivi al 1898 (a partire dalla data del matrimonio fino al 1900-1902 circa) e vedere se esce fuori (e ci deve stare!) l'altro Calogero. Anche in questo caso (sempre che siano microfilmati!) poresti provare a confrontarli con i registri parrocchiali (soprattutto per vedere se è registrata la nascita di Calogero nel 1898: visto che è nato morto potrebbe non essere stato battezzato e quindi non comparire affatto. A volte le levatrici quando capivano che il neonato stava per morire o era già morto dicevano: "e io ti battezzo, nel nome del padre, del Figlio e dello Spirito Santo" poi riferivano al prete che respirava al momento della nascita, ma constatato che stava per morire lei si era permesso di battezzarlo; il prete a quel punto riportava il battesimo sul registro con l'annotazione che lo stesso era stato impartito dalla levatrice perché il neonato era "ab imminente periculo mortis" salvandolo così - almeno nell'intento della levatrice, e per la coscienza dei genitori - dall'inferno dei non batezzati).

Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
Il problema non è che i registri parrocchiali sono più utili, ma che sui documenti civili che tu hai postato, il nome dei nonni non c'è, per cui (anche se ho già detto che non credo ci fossero due coppie omonime) per essere maggiormente sicuri si può vedere se sui registri parrocchiali c'è questa indicazione (ma non è scontato che tali informazioni vi siano).
Dove siano questi registri (in riferimento a S. Giuseppe Jato) io non lo so; spero che altri possano aiutarti.

Luca

Translation:
The problem isn't that the parish registers are more useful, but that in the civil documents that you have posted, the name of the grandparents is not there, so (even if have said that I don't believe that the two couples happen to have the same name) to be even more certain you could look to see if in the parochial records this is indicated (but it can't be discounted that there is such information). Where are these registers (in reference to those in S. Giuseppe Jato) I don't know; I hope that others can help you.

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
... A volte le levatrici quando capivano che il neonato stava per morire o era già morto dicevano: "e io ti battezzo, nel nome del padre, del Figlio e dello Spirito Santo" poi riferivano al prete che respirava al momento della nascita, ma constatato che stava per morire lei si era permesso di battezzarlo; il prete a quel punto riportava il battesimo sul registro con l'annotazione che lo stesso era stato impartito dalla levatrice perché il neonato era "ab imminente periculo mortis" salvandolo così - almeno nell'intento della levatrice, e per la coscienza dei genitori - dall'inferno dei non batezzati).
Luca

This is an example

Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
Some clarifications (They are a little articulated so I need to do them in italian; then if you can't understand it, tell me and I'll try a translation).

Ci sono 2 problemi separati.
Il primo è stabilire se potevano esserci 2 differenti coppie con lo stesso nome (io lo ritengo improbabile). Per chiarire questo particolare potresti consultare i registri dei matrimoni e vedere se ci sono due matrimoni con gli stessi nomi (ma non è detto che possano essersi sposati nello stesso posto e, per giunta, non sappiamo neanche il periodo nel quale questi potrebbero essersi celebrati). Quindi rimane valida l'alternativa, riportata sopra, di consultare (se è possibile trovarli sui microfilm) i registri parrocchiali.
Il secondo è stabilire quando è nato Calogero. Per ottenere una risposta puoi provare a consultare tutti i registri dei nati antecedenti e successivi al 1898 (a partire dalla data del matrimonio fino al 1900-1902 circa) e vedere se esce fuori (e ci deve stare!) l'altro Calogero. Anche in questo caso (sempre che siano microfilmati!) poresti provare a confrontarli con i registri parrocchiali (soprattutto per vedere se è registrata la nascita di Calogero nel 1898: visto che è nato morto potrebbe non essere stato battezzato e quindi non comparire affatto. A volte le levatrici quando capivano che il neonato stava per morire o era già morto dicevano: "e io ti battezzo, nel nome del padre, del Figlio e dello Spirito Santo" poi riferivano al prete che respirava al momento della nascita, ma constatato che stava per morire lei si era permesso di battezzarlo; il prete a quel punto riportava il battesimo sul registro con l'annotazione che lo stesso era stato impartito dalla levatrice perché il neonato era "ab imminente periculo mortis" salvandolo così - almeno nell'intento della levatrice, e per la coscienza dei genitori - dall'inferno dei non batezzati).

Luca

Translation:
There are two separate problems:
The first is to establish if there could have been 2 different couples with the same name (I maintain that this is unlikely). To clarify these particulars you could consult the marriage registers and see if there are weddings with the same names (but that's not to say that they could have been married in the same place and, in addition we don't even know the period in which these might have been celebrated). Hence there remains the valid alternative, spoken of above, to consult (if it is possible to find them on microfilm) the parochial registers.

The second is to establish when Calogero was born. To obtain a reply you could try checking all the registers of the births prior to and following 1898 (starting with the date of the wedding up to about 1900-1902 ) and see if anything shows up (and you must persevere!) of the other Calogero. Even in this case (always allowing that there are microfilms!) you coulld try comparing them with the parochial records (above all to see if the birth of Calogero is registered in1898: seeing that he was born dead it could be that he wasn't baptised and so he doesn't in fact appear. Sometimes the midwives when they realised that the newborn was about to die or was already dead said "and I baptise you, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" then told the priest that the child was breathing at the moment of birth, but verified that as it was about to die she took it on herself to baptise him/her, the priest at that point would report the baptism in the register with the note that the bleesing had been given by the midwife because the child was "in imminent danger of death" saving him in this way - at least in the eyes of the midwife, and for the conscience of the parents - from the hell of the non baptised.

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Carole sei impeccabile (e stacanovista!) kiss (I hope my wife will never see this kiss Embarassed )

Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
Carole sei impeccabile (e stacanovista!) kiss (I hope my wife will never see this kiss Embarassed )

Luca

I promise not to tell your wife, but I'm far to old for you sweetheart... kiss

Am I really an 'stacanovista??? LOL

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Carole wrote:

I promise not to tell your wife, but I'm far to old for you sweetheart... kiss You don't know how old am I!!!

Am I really an 'stacanovista???
stacanovìsta:
(pl. m. -ìsti), s. m. e f.
chi è favorevole allo stacanovismo o lo applica
iron. chi dimostra un fervore particolare e spesso (ma non sempre, aggiungo io) eccessivo nel compiere il proprio lavoro
. LOL

Ciao
Back to top
View user's profile
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

I really need to learn Italian. I expected genealogy but I didn't realize that I was going to get a free pass to Comedy Central lol

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

I will go to FHC this week to review more carefully the microfilm from San Giuseppe. The one I have is Nati, pubblicazioni, matrimoni, cittadinanze, morti 1885-1902 - FHL INTL Film [1916714 Items 1-17]. I don't think the film is complete. There are only one or two other films available from San Giuseppe that might be helpful at this point in my inquiry and others may prove useful as I accumulate more information. Suggestions on how to obtain copies of church records would be helpful.
Atti Di Nascita were not included for all of the years listed for this microfilm.

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
  Page 2 of 4All times are GMT - 4 Hours

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

  
 
Jump to:  



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Hosted By Site5.com
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of Gente di Mare Genealogy.
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the opinions of the poster.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy
TCD_ItalianGene © Gente di Mare Genealogy