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Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Help with notation for my great grandmother

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Help with notation for my great grandmother
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BillieDeKid
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: Help with notation for my great grandmother Reply with quote

I've attached 2 pages for my great grandmother's birth. On the second page there is a matrimonio notation listing my great grandfather.

Can someone please tell me what the last two lines of the notation on the left say? The very last word starts with an R and ends with Ciaccio.

Thanks

Page 1



Page 2


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Elizabeth
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Brognaturo Civil Records
Mangiardi, Tedeschi/Tedesco, Zangari, Coda, DeFrancesco, Ierulli, Bava, Daniele, Valente
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mary
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with notation for my great grandmother Reply with quote

Elizabeth, I've taken a quick look at your documents.

Baby: Elisabetta Maria Coda
Birth: 19 September 1850
Father: Bruno, age 29, labourer
Mother: Concetta Rizzo, age 26

Handwritten on the left: Ha contratto matrimonio con Alfonzo, Antonio, Raffaele Tedesco 29 ? 1873 in Brognaturo.

L'archivista prov.
Raf. Ciaccio

Translation: Contracted matrimony with Alfonzo, Antonio, Raffaele Tedesco on 29 (can't figure out the month) 1873 in Broganturo.

Provincial Archivist
Raf.(probably short for Raffaele) Ciaccio

Let me know if you need other portions looked at.

Mary
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BillieDeKid
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with notation for my great grandmother Reply with quote

Thanks so much Mary I really appreciate you looking at this. They were married September 29, 1873. I don't need any other portion of the document translated, but thank you very much.
I do have one question though..........What exactly does it mean - Contracted matrimony - it was an arranged marriage by the parents?

Thanks again.
Elizabeth

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liviomoreno
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:18 am    Post subject: Re: Help with notation for my great grandmother Reply with quote

Elizabeth, just to explain: the month is written as 7bre (settembre). Ha contratto matrimonio = Married, no arrangement involvement.

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BillieDeKid
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Help with notation for my great grandmother Reply with quote

Thank you Livio.

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mary
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with notation for my great grandmother Reply with quote

Thanks, Livio, for straightening me out. I've been transcribing Ardore records for a while now and I don't believe I've seen a date written that way before. Is it also used for October, November and December?

Mary
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Cathy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:26 am    Post subject: Re: Help with notation for my great grandmother Reply with quote

mary wrote:
Thanks, Livio, for straightening me out. I've been transcribing Ardore records for a while now and I don't believe I've seen a date written that way before. Is it also used for October, November and December?

Mary

Something I have noticed in records I have transcribed and read from a number of different comune from different provinces - they all do things their own way while following the stato format. Each town seems to have it's own nuiances. Drives me crazy lol.

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nuccia
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:57 am    Post subject: Re: Help with notation for my great grandmother Reply with quote

mary wrote:
Thanks, Livio, for straightening me out. I've been transcribing Ardore records for a while now and I don't believe I've seen a date written that way before. Is it also used for October, November and December?

Mary

Mary..I noticed a few on the older ones. The images aren't the best though (indici especially) and I only noticed them because I looked at the original tiffs. Regardless, you managed to get most right anyway so subconsciously you must have realized what they meant. I think we will notice more as we fully extract all the files. Remember, I really "cheated" before you came along. Embarassed

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Luca
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: Help with notation for my great grandmother Reply with quote

I found it especially in parish acts:









Luca
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mary
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Help with notation for my great grandmother Reply with quote

Thanks, everyone. Looking back on it now, I seem to remember some months that looked odd with not enough letters. I will be more vigilant when transcribing from now on, now that I know this little quirk of some clerks.

Mary
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JamesBianco
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Help with notation for my great grandmother Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
I found it especially in parish acts: Luca

Yes Luca, it is pretty much the standard format for the church records. I have rarely seen this abreviation used in the Stato Civile documents, unless they have included in the allegati a baptism or burial from the church.

What gets really confusing is that the Latin numbering gets a little strange after August.

September = 7bris
October = 8bris
November = 9bris
December = Xbris

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Luca
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with notation for my great grandmother Reply with quote

From wiki:

Settembre: il nome deriva dal latino september, a sua volta da septem, "sette", perché era il settimo mese del calendario romano, che iniziava con il mese di marzo. [The name derives from the latin september, which comes from the latin number septem, because the year started with the month of march and september was, in this way, the seventh month
September:
Nominativo - September
Genitivo - Septembris
Dativo - Septembri
Accusativo - Septembrem
Vocativo - September
Ablativo - Septembre ]


The same for Ottobre: il nome deriva dal latino october [a sua volta da octo], perché era l'ottavo mese del calendario romano, che iniziava con il mese di marzo

Novembre: dal latino novem, "nove", perché era il nono mese del calendario romano, che iniziava con il mese di Marzo.

Dicembre: dal latino decem, "dieci", perché era il decimo mese del calendario romano, che iniziava con il mese di marzo.

Luca
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JamesBianco
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with notation for my great grandmother Reply with quote

Thanks Luca for that great explanation! It makes complete sense to me now.

(still confusing if you are extracting a lot of records! I keep wanting to type July when I see the "7" and so on )

Very Happy

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