x
Toggle Content Register or Login  -  September 21, 2017, 4:04 pm
Toggle Content User Info
Toggle Content Main Menu
Toggle Content Last Posts
Last 10 Forum Messages

Surname Serafini from Barga
Last post by Libby in Northern Italy on Sep 04, 2017 at 03:47:22

RESEACHING LUCIA NAPOLI DELIANOUVA
Last post by carol in Where do I begin? on Sep 01, 2017 at 12:27:00

Sant'Elia Fiumerapido - De Filippis
Last post by Marchpatty in Central Italy on Aug 24, 2017 at 23:45:06

PUGLIESE OR VALEO
Last post by Biff83 in Central Italy on Aug 05, 2017 at 20:14:08

PUGLIESE OR VALEO
Last post by Biff83 in Southern Italy on Aug 05, 2017 at 20:13:41

PUGLIESE OR VALEO
Last post by Biff83 in Northern Italy on Aug 05, 2017 at 01:30:23

Ambrogio Bianchi
Last post by debbiemfit in Central Italy on Jul 31, 2017 at 17:49:19

Gentile ,Mammola, Calabria
Last post by nuccia in Southern Italy on Jul 20, 2017 at 07:52:30

looking for manifest of Sabato Pizzano changed to Pisano
Last post by DaveFerro in Southern Italy on Jul 19, 2017 at 21:29:46

Looking for Vincenzo Contrera
Last post by Biff83 in Southern Italy on Jul 10, 2017 at 23:36:16

Toggle Content Help Support this Site
Please support GentediMareGenealogy
Help us by supporting the future development of this site, or simply to say thank you.
Toggle Content EStore
Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Can someone read this?

     Forum FAQ   Search   Log in to check your private messages   Login  
Can someone read this?
For help with translating documents or writing letters.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 4363
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:51 am    Post subject: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Can someone help with translating this? I don't need it word for word, but I can't make out the body of this translation..

mofrad.net/ardore/Nati/1815/079.jpg

Thanks Very Happy

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

It's a birth act concerning an abandoned infant.
Tomorrow i'll provide you with a complete transcription.

Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
mary
Mem
Mem


Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Posts: 77
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Nuccia,

Catarina Bruzzese, age 50, midwife, living in Ardore declared that this same day (Dec. 28, 1815) at 12:00 o'clock there was placed at her residence a male child clothed in artichoke-coloured clothing and without any apparent mark on his body, ? ? ?. After having visited (examined?) him, we recognized him as being a male and that he seemed to be 4 or 5 months old. He was given the name Bruno Giuseppe.

Maybe someone else can figure out the few words that I couldn't.

Mary
Back to top
View user's profile
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 4363
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Thank you Luca and Mary. I have never seen a birth act like this before. I find it interesting..sad, but interesting.

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:30 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

mary wrote:
Nuccia,

Catarina Bruzzese, age 50, midwife, living in Ardore declared that this same day (Dec. 28, 1815) at 12:00 o'clock there was placed at her residence a male child clothed in artichoke-coloured clothing and without any apparent mark on his body, ? ? ?. After having visited (examined?) him, we recognized him as being a male and that he seemed to be 4 or 5 months old. He was given the name Bruno Giuseppe.

Maybe someone else can figure out the few words that I couldn't.

Mary

Mary,

rather than carciofi I read cenciosi, so I would translate
ragged clothing Wink

Luca, what's your opinion Question

_________________
Livio

La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Numero d'ordine 79.
L'anno 1815, ventotto del mese di dicembre avanti di noi Giuseppe Morando sindaco ed ufficiale dello Stato Civile del Comune di Ardore, provincia di Calabria Ultra è comparsa Caterina Brazzese di anni 50 di professione levatrice domiciliata in Ardore, ed ha dichiarato che questo stesso giorno, alle ore 12 è stato esposto nella casa di sua abitazione un fanciullo ravvolto in alcuni pannilini tutti cenciosi, e senza alcun segno apparente sul corpo, tale come ci si presenta e dopo di averlo visitato l'abbiamo riconosciuto che era maschio, e che compariva di avere l'età di 4 in 5 mesi, a cui è stato dato il nome di Bruno Giuseppe.
La presentazione, e dichiarazione è stata fatta alla presenza di Giuseppe Xxx di anni 32 di professione civile, domiciliato in Ardore e di Domenico Morando di anni 30 di professione civile domiciliato in Ardore strada lo stretto(!).
Il presente atto è stato letto tanto al dichiarante che ai testimoni, ed indi firmato da noi.

Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Luca, ogni volta che leggo una tua trascrizione debbo togliermi il cappello (che non porto)!
Ma esisteva già la parola "pannilini"? Io tendevo a leggere "panni lisi"

_________________
Livio

La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Lascia stare il cappello... che tanto siamo in due a non portarlo!!!
Non so se la parola pannilini esistesse o meno, però se guardi la "s" nelle altre parole sembra ben diversa; io l'ho intesa nel senso di "panni di lino" che al plurale forma questa strana parola "pannilini". Però, come si dice in questi casi, sono giusto i miei 2 cents!

Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
mary
Mem
Mem


Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Posts: 77
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Thanks again, Livio and Luca for setting me straight. I tip my imaginary hat to you too. I don't wear one either, except a woollen one in winter when it's -10-20C.

I knew that "artichoke coloured" was probably not right, and I did look up
"cenciosi" in my Italian-English dictionary, but the word wasn't in there.

I have no illusions that my translations are perfect, I leave that to the Italian Italians, but I couldn't resist trying since this is a document from my old hometown (I left when I was 10).

One thing I am sure of, the midwife's name is Bruzzese and the mayor is Marando..

Does anyone have any insight as to how foundlings were given last names? Could Bruno have been given as a surname to the child? Quite a few years ago we knew a man whose last name was Salvatore. When we asked how come he had a first name as a last name he said that he was an orphan, and that's how orphans were named. I don't remember what area in Italy he came from.

Mary
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Mary, your translation was very accurate. I jumped in just because the "artichoke" colour sounded weird...
I agree with you that the midwife's name is Bruzzese but I have some doubt about the mayor's name.

About the child's name I believe that the Bruno Giuseppe is the first name. The document does not show a surname... All the names are written as first-last, therefore Bruno cannot be the surname.

Usually fundlings were given last names such as Esposito, PregaDio (pray god), LaudaDio (praise god), Diotallevi (god raise you)...

_________________
Livio

La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

I think that such a document it's not easy for a non-italian (or for an ex italian Wink )... so your translation was great. I know that Nuccia can understand italian so i thought that she could appreciate a transcription.
About surnames: it's highly probable that the midwife surname was Bruzzese, but it's not impossible that it was Brazzese; the same for the Mayor. Bruno could be either a name or a surname, maybe Nuccia can tell us if this was the surname that remained to the child for the rest of his life or not.

Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 4363
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

The mayor's name IS Marando for certain.. that much I am sure of. But I was also wondering what the last name of the child was. Without an indici, (this year doesn't have one) there is no way to make sure. Maybe he took the name Bruzzese? This has happened on some of the other documents we've seen, hasn't it Mary?

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
mary
Mem
Mem


Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Posts: 77
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

From the Ardore Birth Acts that I've transcribed, there doesn't seem to be a pattern as to how foundlings and illegitimate children were dealt with.

In one year, the same woman found 2-3 newborns on her doorstep (I wonder if she was designated by the authorities for this job), gave them names and last names, went and registered them, and was given the job of taking them to the orphanage in another town.

I've found that in most cases, if they knew who the mother was, the child was given the mother's last name, but 1823 was different and it disturbs me. I'm hoping that someone tells me that I've misunderstood.

Ardore Nati, 1823, #4, 50, 101. Even though the mothers of these children were known, they were given the last name "Spurio/a", which a check on Google tells me that it means "bastardo" or "illegittimo". Another quick check to see if there are actual people with that surname in that area and I found several. It saddens me to think that these children had to go through life with such a last name and not being able to hide the fact that they were illegitimate.

One happy finding. For a few years I kept coming across the name of a certain midwife, Rosa Maria Campagna. Then, in 1903, I came across her Death Act which stated "genitori ignoti" (unknown parents). I was gratified to know that despite her beginning, she was able to have a profession. She must have been brought up by very supportive adoptive parents.

Nuccia, I can't say I remember a case where they were given the midwife's surname. If a midwife was involved, they knew the mother's surname and gave it to the baby. Sometimes the foundlings were given the name of the little area they were found in. I'll pay more attention to such cases from now on.

Mary
Back to top
View user's profile
BillieDeKid
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Oct 26, 2007
Posts: 1221
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Mary thats very interesting. I have found Spurio's in my town too.

_________________
Elizabeth
Brognaturo On Line
Brognaturo Civil Records
Mangiardi, Tedeschi/Tedesco, Zangari, Coda, DeFrancesco, Ierulli, Bava, Daniele, Valente
Back to top
View user's profile
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 4363
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

I am trying to entering all these names, people and ages into a group database (ok..I should be finished in about 12 years) so I am going to keep a eye out for this child...I am really curious about what happened to him. As for Spurio and the 1923 records, I also noticed the same thing. Lets see what the next few years are like. I will hopefully upload them this week or next.

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
  Page 1 of 1All times are GMT - 4 Hours

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

  
 
Jump to:  



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Hosted By Site5.com
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of Gente di Mare Genealogy.
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the opinions of the poster.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy
TCD_ItalianGene © Gente di Mare Genealogy