x
Toggle Content Register or Login  -  November 21, 2024, 6:32 pm
Toggle Content User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: LucilleDZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 2016

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 336
Total: 336
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: My Account
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Toggle Content Main Menu
Toggle Content Last Posts
Last 10 Forum Messages

translation help needed please
Last post by yesindd in Translations on Jul 15, 2024 at 20:59:53

bocca
Last post by tennino in General Discussion Groups on Jan 16, 2021 at 15:56:41

Towns in Frosinone that were part of former Vatican States a
Last post by Italysearcher in Central Italy on Feb 19, 2019 at 08:15:58

Dual Citizenship
Last post by Curci-Ghio in General Discussion Groups on Nov 18, 2018 at 14:30:54

Please Help Translate Letter
Last post by nuccia in Translations on Oct 20, 2018 at 06:18:43

Family in Cittanova
Last post by russojoseph1 in Translations on Oct 14, 2018 at 12:28:20

DNA Testing
Last post by nuccia in General Discussion Groups on Sep 29, 2018 at 10:39:30

Trento -Atto di Nascita - Frazione di Poia, Comune di Comano
Last post by exevans in Northern Italy on Mar 28, 2018 at 00:45:37

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 12:58:50

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 12:53:38

Toggle Content Help Support this Site
Please support GentediMareGenealogy
Help us by supporting the future development of this site, or simply to say thank you.
Toggle Content EStore
Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Catasto of Montalto

     Forum FAQ   Search   Log in to check your private messages   Login  
Catasto of Montalto
For help with translating documents or writing letters.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:43 pm    Post subject: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

I have received the Catasto of Montalto and have many questions. My first question is where are my Napolitano's?!! Shocked I only found 1 in the indexes!! Shocked I knew I was close to finding they came from elsewhere because there are only a few in the 1700's but I also know from the baptisms that at least 3 of them (and their children) should be here. Any ideas anyone?
I will begin with the indexes. There seem to be several different indexes - I can tell one is for the religious people living in Montalto. I can assume the first index is for head of household. Each index has a title on it so I am posting them below and would like to know what the title says.

The first one I will post is HERE has the only Napolitano I found in the index. I believe this is Nuccia ancestor Arcangelo. It was in the 3 grouping of indexes. What does the title say and what do the column headings say?
Thanks.

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

Here is the page with the record of Arcangelo and Rosa Scarlato. These are Nuccia's direct line ancestors. It shows they originated in Belsito, Cosenza. Can someone please translate their information? Thanks!

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

www.montaltouffugo.org...o/0538.jpg

Title: index of the strangers living (now) in Montalto
Coloumn index: the first I think says "property" (in the sense of "value of the property"), the second "economic rent".
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

www.montaltouffugo.org...0418-2.jpg (transcription)

Arcangelo Napolitano orig(inario) di Bersito di an(ni) ---30
Rosa Scarlato moglie di an(ni) ------------------------------22
Bruno figlio di an(ni) --------------------------------------------2
Teresa figlia d'an(ni) -------------------------------------------1
Marianna sorella (di Arcangelo)di an(ni) ------------------18
jus ab(itatio)nis [tassa che dovevano pagare i forestieri per avere il diritto di abitare in una università/città diversa dalla propria]
Abita in casa ??? sop(r)a la q(ua)le vi è il peso
di g(ra)na [i "grani" erano monete: la moneta in vigore all’epoca nel Regno di Napoli era il ducato che era formato da 5 tarì, da 10 carlini e da 100 grani. Il grano era a sua volta formato da 12 cavalli. 6 cavalli erano un tornese.] venti all'archid(?) [Arcidioccesi???]
Una robba [un terreno] loco d(ett)o li Crocchi alb(erat)a di olivi ???
la rend(it)a p(er) carli(ni) diciassette. sono on(ce) cinque e g(ran)a 20_____ 5___20
In tutto sono on(ce) cinque e g(ran)a venti __________________________ 5___20
Back to top
View user's profile
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

Thanks Luca! I understood Marianna was a sister but I did not know if she was Arcangelo's sister or Rosa's. It makes sense now that her relationship listed was her relationship to the head of the household. There is some of what you wrote here I do not understand and it is not translating well in Google. The horses that Arcangelo owned here valued for their worth? I do not understand anything in the sentence that ends with olive oil. Confused Can Livio, Carole or Ada help me out here? Thanks.
One last question. Arcangelo is from Belsito. What about Rosa? There are Scarlato's living in Montalto - many are in this Catasto. There were also Scarlato's in Belsito.
Nuccia, I am sorry, this is the end of your Napolitano line. There is no catasto for Belsito available on the archive...unless we write Maria Nucci and ask or we can somehow obtain church records. The question is how?

As for my Napolitano's, I know they lived in Montalto during this Catasto! I have an extract of Raffaele Napolitano's wife's death that occurred in Montalto in January, 1777. I do not understand why they are not in the index, but I will find them if they are here.

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
...
jus abitationis =[tax that foreigners had to pay in order to be allowed to live in another town

Abita in casa ??? sopra la quae vi è il peso
di grana venti all'archidiocesi(?) =He lives in a house on which there is a burden of 20 "grana" in favor of the Archdioceses[the "grani" were money: During the Kingdom of Naples the base currency was 1 ducato, composed by 100 grani. ]

Una robba [un terreno] loco detto li Crocchi alberata di olivi =A land in a place called "Li Crocchi" with olive trees


La rendita per carlini diciassette sono once cinque e grana 20_____ 5___20
In tutto sono once cinque e grana venti __________________________ 5___20
=
The revenue for 17 carlini is 5 onces and 20 grana
The totals is 5 onces and 20 grana

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

Thanks you Livio! Where did Google get horses?! Shocked LOL That is very interesting that people from other towns had to pay a special tax. And a tax to the Archdioceses too! Thank you both! I really appreciate it.

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
uantiti
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Nov 28, 2008
Posts: 356
Location: Biella (Piedmont) and Venezia/Venice, Italy

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
http://www.montaltouffugo.org/documents/catasto/0418-2.jpg (transcription)

........
Abita in casa ??? sop(r)a la q(ua)le vi è il peso
di g(ra)na [i "grani" erano monete: la moneta in vigore all’epoca nel Regno di Napoli era il ducato che era formato da 5 tarì, da 10 carlini e da 100 grani. Il grano era a sua volta formato da 12 cavalli. 6 cavalli erano un tornese.] venti all'archid(?) [Arcidioccesi???]
Una robba [un terreno] loco d(ett)o li Crocchi alb(erat)a di olivi ???
la rend(it)a p(er) carli(ni) diciassette. sono on(ce) cinque e g(ran)a 20_____ 5___20
In tutto sono on(ce) cinque e g(ran)a venti __________________________ 5___20



Cathy, horses are there but they aren't real horses, they were money. I think Livio missed a line:

The currency under the Kingdom of Naples was "ducato" formed by 5 "tarì", 10 "carlini" and 100 "grani". One "grano" was on its turn consisting of 12 "cavalli" (horses) . Six "cavalli" made one "tornese".

Also, I dont' know if they had to pay a tax to the Archdiocese because they were foreigners or because the place they lived belonged to the Archdiocese.


Ada

_________________
Researching: Agazzone, Beretta, Bertona, Carbonati, Castelletta, Ferrari, Gallo, Guglielmetti, Marchini, Mascagni, Nicolazzi, Nobile, Rossi, Sacco, Tosone - gone to USA from Bogogno, province of Novara, Piedmont, Italy.
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

It is true that I missed 1 line. I did it on purpose because it was not part of the original document and I wanted to simplify the translation of the explanations given by Luca. In doing so I forgot to answer to the equine question... Smile

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

Thank you both! This is very interesting. I feel like I am learning something which is always a good thing. I really appreciate your help.

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

So it's official - Both my Mom's Paternal and Maternal lines trace back to Belsito which is approximately 3 kms from where she was born! Oh, and I have Nucci's in my tree too - (ducks)

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

Edited post to remove information I figured out on my own.

I have barely had a chance to actually look at the pages of
the Catasto, however, at first glance of the indexes, I have a few questions.
I will begin with documents found at the end of the indexes. I assume these pages are some sort of summary of the Catasto. I would really like to know what these final pages after the indexes are or refer to. Please note, I do not need a translation, just an idea of what it says. Is it a summary of the Catasto? Can someone please help?



These pages are totally handwritten. I would not ask for a translation, just
an idea of what they say.
Page 1
Page 2
Thanks for your help.

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

Transcription of the first part of page 1 (the second part says the same things). The most significant in bold.

Addì ventisei dicembre 1748 in Montalto.
Fò (=faccio) fede io sottoscritto Vincenzo Cinella ... cancelliere dell'università di questa nobile e fedelissima città di Montalto qualmente (=che) Francesco Vicciano ordinario giurato di questa ducal corte con giuramento ha riferito a me sottoscritto cancelliere come oggi predetto di aver pubblicato a suon di tromba mone(= avviso ?) solito, alta ed intellegibile voce mone praeconis (= avviso/monito dei banditori ?), per i (= nei) luoghi soliti di questa città in presenza di molti cittadini di essersi di già terminato il general catasto di questa predetta città per ordine dei signori deputati del medesimo, affinché fosse fatto palese (=noto) a tutti; presenti per testimoni Saverio di Onofrio, Leonardo Solama, mastro Paol Martora, mastro Carlo di Agostino ed altri ed in fede.
Vincenzo Cinella cancelliere.

Copia. Si fa fede anche con giuramento da me qui sotto Ignazio di Giacomo ... trombetta di questa repubblica autonoma(?) di Calabria Citra, qualmente (= che) oggi sottoscritto giorno d'ordine del giudice della G(enerale) C(onsulta) ecc. ecc.
Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
Transcription of the first part of page 1 (the second part says the same things). The most significant in bold.

Addì ventisei dicembre 1748 in Montalto.
Fò (=faccio) fede io sottoscritto Vincenzo Cinella ... cancelliere dell'università di questa nobile e fedelissima città di Montalto qualmente (=che) Francesco Vicciano ordinario giurato di questa ducal corte con giuramento ha riferito a me sottoscritto cancelliere come oggi predetto di aver pubblicato a suon di tromba mone(= avviso ?) solito, alta ed intellegibile voce mone praeconis (= avviso/monito dei banditori ?), per i (= nei) luoghi soliti di questa città in presenza di molti cittadini di essersi di già terminato il general catasto di questa predetta città per ordine dei signori deputati del medesimo, affinché fosse fatto palese (=noto) a tutti; presenti per testimoni Saverio di Onofrio, Leonardo Solama, mastro Paol Martora, mastro Carlo di Agostino ed altri ed in fede.
Vincenzo Cinella cancelliere.

Copia. Si fa fede anche con giuramento da me qui sotto Ignazio di Giacomo ... trombetta di questa repubblica autonoma(?) di Calabria Citra, qualmente (= che) oggi sottoscritto giorno d'ordine del giudice della G(enerale) C(onsulta) ecc. ecc.

Translation
(As near as I can get it.....)
On the twenty sixth of December 1748 in Montalto

In faith I the undersigned Vincenzo Cinella… Chancellor of the University of this noble and faithful city of Montalto that Francesco Vicciano ordinary juror of this ducal court with his oath he told me the undersigned Chancellor that today the aforesaid was published with a fanfare of trumpets to advise as customary, loud and clear by the town crier a notice / warning, in the usual places in this city in the presence of may citizens to be ended the general inventory of this aforesaid city by order of the appointed gentlemen (deputies) of the same, was done clear to everybody, present as witnesses were Saverio di Onofrio, Leonardo Solama, Master Paol Martora, Master Carlo di Agostino and others and in faith..
Vincenzo Cinella Chancellor


Copy. It is done in belief also with oath from me here under Ignazio of Giacomo…. trumpeter of this autonomous Republic of Calabria-Citra, that today on the date below by order of the Judge of the General Constitutional Court. etc. etc.

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasto of Montalto Reply with quote

Thanks Luca and Carole! I am glad I asked! That is so interesting! I love the part about the trumpets! Wink I can almost picture the scene in my mind with those beautiful mountains behind the trumpeter. Your efforts are much appreciated!

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
  Page 1 of 1All times are GMT - 4 Hours

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

  
 
Jump to:  



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Hosted By Site5.com
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of Gente di Mare Genealogy.
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the opinions of the poster.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy
TCD_ItalianGene © Gente di Mare Genealogy