x
Toggle Content Register or Login  -  November 28, 2024, 10:14 pm
Toggle Content User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: LucilleDZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 2016

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 67
Total: 67
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Photo Gallery
03: Community Forums
04: My Account
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: My Account
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: My Account
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Statistics
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: My Account
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Stories Archive
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: My Account
67: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Toggle Content Main Menu
Toggle Content Last Posts
Last 10 Forum Messages

translation help needed please
Last post by yesindd in Translations on Jul 15, 2024 at 20:59:53

bocca
Last post by tennino in General Discussion Groups on Jan 16, 2021 at 15:56:41

Towns in Frosinone that were part of former Vatican States a
Last post by Italysearcher in Central Italy on Feb 19, 2019 at 08:15:58

Dual Citizenship
Last post by Curci-Ghio in General Discussion Groups on Nov 18, 2018 at 14:30:54

Please Help Translate Letter
Last post by nuccia in Translations on Oct 20, 2018 at 06:18:43

Family in Cittanova
Last post by russojoseph1 in Translations on Oct 14, 2018 at 12:28:20

DNA Testing
Last post by nuccia in General Discussion Groups on Sep 29, 2018 at 10:39:30

Trento -Atto di Nascita - Frazione di Poia, Comune di Comano
Last post by exevans in Northern Italy on Mar 28, 2018 at 00:45:37

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 12:58:50

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 12:53:38

Toggle Content Help Support this Site
Please support GentediMareGenealogy
Help us by supporting the future development of this site, or simply to say thank you.
Toggle Content EStore
Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Catasti!!!!!

     Forum FAQ   Search   Log in to check your private messages   Login  
Catasti!!!!!
For help with translating documents or writing letters.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MauroMags
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jul 15, 2007
Posts: 259
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Hi Nuccia,

thanks for trying. My mother and i were just deliberating over this document and it looks like the annotations under 1765 say something to the effect of


"morto il sudi (sudetto) Magarelli ???????? Vincenzo ?????? ?????? morte anche il ?????

any guess?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Mauro..that looks like an f not an s in our opinion...(sudi),,,,fu stilling working on it.

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Mauro..this is a Tax Assessment/Census Record for the family. I was just looking for it in one of my books and it has a copy of something that looks exactly like it. Let me read it and see what it says.

I may just end up sending you the copy of the page.

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Vincenzo Magarello (occupation) Bracciale..28 yrs old
Anna ?ndicnte moglie (wife) 25 yrs old
Giuseppe? figlio 6
Modesto? figlio 3

Testa (Adult heads which I would assume would be two but it looks like something..uno)
Industria (industry) and the number is based on a monetary denomination according to the geographical area..its the total tax that was assessed for the house & production.



More to come....

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

The other names could be those who also lived in the household, including the servants. Looks like they lived at Nicola Bonad? ed..still checking.

Looks like the notation on the side belongs to another person, living at 1263 who seems to have been taxed or assessed separately since the note says 8: :10

And then another person...Magarelli living at 1265, but I still can't seem to get what he did?owned. But I will...

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

I need to get some sleep..work comes early in the morning but I'll look more tomorrow and try to figure it out. Hopefully someone can pick up something from this. The good thing about these types of records were that everyone living in or one the premises was listed...

Mauro, when I get the chance (maybe at work tomorrow) I'll scan the pages of the book and email you the copies of what it says about them. It may help you with the other records.

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:44 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Mauro, I took the liberty to post your document in the Italian forum Tutto per la Tua Genealogia. It was almost deciphered...
This is what Luca was able to read:

Dall'inizio
Vincenzo Megarelli (!) bracciale di anni 28
Anna Tridente (!) moglie di anni 23 (o 25)
Gius(epp)e figlio di anni 6
Modesto figlio di anni 3
(Quello che è scritto sotto al 3 non lo capisco)
Possiede mezza vigna d'oliva alla bracarella appresso li beni di Nicolò Bonadusce (poi 4 parole che non capisco) per Carlini undeci
Abita all'Anunziata alla casa di Comodo Cappellecchia, e paga annuj bai(?) quattro, altro ... ... ... vive dell'industria delle braccia
In alto a sinistra leggo:
1763
Possiede un bovino sano onc(e) 8:10
1765
Morto il sud(ett)o Megarelli
(6 parole che non capisco)
morto anche il bove (!)


This is my best translation [my comments between square brackets]

From the top:
Vincenzo Megarelli (!) farmhand, aged 28
Anna Tridente (!) wife, aged 23 (o 25)
Gius(epp)e son, aged 6
Modesto son, aged 3
(I don't understand what is written under the 3)
He owns half vineyard of olives alla bracarella [I don't know what is this] close to the property of Nicolò Bonadusce (then 4 words I don't understand) for eleven Carlini [Carlini is money]
He lives at Anunziata in the house of Comodo Cappellecchia, and he pays every year bai(?) [bai is money]four, other ... ... ... he works with his arms for a living
On top on the left:
1763
He owns an healthy beef weighing 8:10 onces
1765
The above mentioned Megarelli dead
(6 word I don't understand)
also the beef is dead (!)

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:55 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Livio,

Thats amazing! I thought at first the numbers were 1763 and 1765, then figured I was wrong! And """"""""""""""""I did recognize the olives as part of the assets but thats it! Embarassed

S I guess this must be the Census for a few years?

Wonder why everything died?

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:25 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Catasto = Land register

On the other forum, Luca has asked to post other documents because he enjoys to read them. Razz Razz Razz

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

I have done some additional research on Catasto onciario.
As I said in my previous post it is a Land Register that follows the rules dictated by the king Carlo di Borbone in the first half of the 18th century.
The register did not include any map and the value of the land itself was expressed in Once (money), 1 Oncia = 6 ducati...
The ultimate purpose was to establish the taxes that the owner had to pay....

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

WOW - that is amazing. Livio, you are wonderful and I am sure Mauro will be so happy!
party

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
MauroMags
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jul 15, 2007
Posts: 259
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

WOW!! Livio thank you so much!!! and please thank Luca for me.

I believe that the son Gius. is my gggg-grandfather. From other records i've learned that his father-in-law was named Corrado Cappolecchia. I wonder if its the same Corrado.

Also, i'm curious on how to date the ages of this family? The archivist wrote that this catasti runs from 1753 to 1780. Does that mean the original information was written in 1753 when Vincenzo was 28 and thus when he died in 1765 he was 40?

The entire file of catasti that i have is about 1.63 MB in a pdf file. What is the best way to post them

thank you to everyone for all the help! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

There is a service similar to Photo Bucket or Image Shack for uploading documents. I cannot remember the name of it but I think I have it bookmarked on my PC at home (I am at work). Or you can create a free googlepages website and upload the documents there. You can also email me the documents and I will upload them to my Calabrian Genealogy website and post the links here or email them to you (tell me which to do). I would be happy to do that for you.

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
MauroMags
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jul 15, 2007
Posts: 259
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Hi Cathy,

I just emailed you the pdf of the remaining documents. If you could post the links here that would be great, that way everyone on this forum can view them

thanks again,
Mauro
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

OK! Very Happy Here is the link: www.calabriangenealogy...relli6.pdf

Thanks for sharing these amazing documents Mauro.

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
  Page 2 of 3All times are GMT - 4 Hours

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

  
 
Jump to:  



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Hosted By Site5.com
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of Gente di Mare Genealogy.
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the opinions of the poster.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy
TCD_ItalianGene © Gente di Mare Genealogy