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Community Forums › General › General Discussion Groups › Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini..

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Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini..
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JamesBianco
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:50 am    Post subject: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini.. Reply with quote

My Grandmother from Carini, Antonina Leone was the child of first cousins, her maternal grandfather and her paternal grandmother were brother and sister. Her mother's parents were 2nd and 3rd cousins as well, all Marciano's. As you go back further in her ancestry you find even more cousins, I am not talking about this uncle married this aunt, or this cousin married that cousin, direct line ancestors marrying their own cousins.

At first I thought, ok it's a smallish town in Sicily, there just were not that many people. But what is remarkable is that if I look at my grandmother's ancestors back to the 1500's I keep seeing one common ancestor over and over again, Biagio Marciano. While i find other ancestors repeated in other lines, it is only maybe once or twice. I descend from Biagio Marciano a total of 13 times!! 13 direct lines of descent is pretty strange, even for Sicily. Like I said there is not other ancestor in Carini I descend from more than twice (and not too often), but with him 13 lines!

I printed out my Grandmother's descent from Biagio and his wife Antonina and highlighted her so you can see the 13 lines of descent (the charts might be hard to read because I took them with my digital camera.)

My Grandmother is in Yellow, 13 times! lol

13 lines of Descent from Biagio Marciano

It's kind of cool yet also kind of disturbing!

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nuccia
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini.. Reply with quote

Hmmmm....interesting. Wonder if others have the same thing in their trees?

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MauroMags
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini.. Reply with quote

James,

check out this story from 20/20

abcnews.go.com/search?...=bau&type=

go to the above link and then click on # Slideshow IconThe Secret To Longevity?

Its about a small northern Italian town where everyone is related and as a result all have beneficial cholesterol levels
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MauroMags
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini.. Reply with quote

For a video of the story check out this URL

abcnews.go.com/Video/p...affil=wabc
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liviomoreno
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini.. Reply with quote

James, it is really incredible.
Would it be possible for you to show a smaller portion, but readable, of the tree? For instance the one that I highlighted in red?
James tree

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JamesBianco
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini.. Reply with quote

Here are a couple images (the chart is way too large by itself)

Image 1

Image 2

Image 3

Image 4

Image 5

Image 6

and also My Grandmother's descent from Biagio Marciano in PDF Format:

(I have not included any siblings, aunts/uncles or cousins here, these are only my direct ancestors)

Marciano Descent

Oh and Mauro Thank you so much for those links... fascinating !!

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liviomoreno
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini.. Reply with quote

Unbelievable!!!

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JamesBianco
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini.. Reply with quote

liviomoreno wrote:
Unbelievable!!!


I know, I've never heard of anything like it! The strange thing is there is not another ancestor I have in Carini that I descend from more than twice (even as early as 1520), but Biagio Marciano 13 times!

Shocked

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini.. Reply with quote

I've handwritten a more simplified chart of my descent from Biagio, unfortunately I had to leave out one of the lines, it wouldn't fit! But you still get the idea.

Marciano Descent

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini... Reply with quote

WOW! You have worked hard on this. One day I hope to have this much information. I just may find something similiar in my tree...

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MikeSavoca91
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini.. Reply with quote

Jim that is nuts! You know my mom comes from a town in Croatia that was settled maybe 600 years ago by 2 greek sailors one was an Antolos the other was a Grgas. The town is comprised of almost all Antolos' and Grgas', my mom being an Antolos herself. There have been many times when I have seen second cousins marry, I have many cousins who are related to me two even 3 different ways. What you have is rare and very cool! Oh and PS. nice handwriting.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini.. Reply with quote

MikeSavoca91 wrote:
What you have is rare and very cool! Oh and PS. nice handwriting.
It is very rare - and I find it very difficult to figure out what I have learned of my own family. I will never be able to go back as far as James unless I get access to the church records but even with my information of 100-150 years, it is very difficult to figure out my family connections. Shocked Some families married into each other so many times and had so many children...
I agree, nice handwriting! Very Happy Too bad some of the stato officials did not write as nicely! I know understand why the nuns whapped our hands with rulers when our penmanship was lacking! Sad

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini.. Reply with quote

i have a little bit of the cousins marrying in my tree and the majority of my ancestors stem from Molfetta, which is by no means a small isolated village. I believe this phenomenon is more directly related to the dowry system, since parents wanted to marry their daughters off with potential husbands that

a) come from a known good family
b) were able to match the dowry price of the potential bride

In some of the anecdotal stories i've heard, many wealthier single females often had to wait a long time to be married since few potential bachelors had the cash to match thier "bridal fee." Parents may have initiated marriages between cousins because they knew the assets of the families

On the other hand, when youngsters were looking for love, maybe the only potential mates were first/second cousins because protective societies prohibited young females from associating with strangers. So women only knew their cousins on a familiar level and therefore fell in love with them.

ok, sorry about my long-winded rant Razz
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini.. Reply with quote

Mauro, good points I didn't consider. I notice on many of my Marciano records they are listed as "Borgese" and owned land as early as 1593 in Carini. So maybe that is the reason they kept intermarrying.

I always wondered why I would find a bride in her late 20's or early 30's marrying for the first time. The dowry factor is most likely the reason!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Inbreeding in my Sicilian town of Carini.. Reply with quote

I have noticed the same trend in my family - they had lots of property and were well off. There were about 6 families that married into each other over and over through the generations. Every single family in my lines had multiple siblings marrying into the same families or same surnames. My information does not go back as far as Mauro or James' information but I expect to continue to see this trend. Although I have been unable to connect my 2 Napolitano lines yet (both my great grandmother and great grandfather were Napolitano's) I beleive I will if I can get access to records that far back. I have noticed the same trends in other families in the town also.

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