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Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Is this a birth act or a baptismal record?

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Is this a birth act or a baptismal record?
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Emmy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:36 pm    Post subject: Is this a birth act or a baptismal record? Reply with quote

Be grateful if someone could give me a rough idea what this document says and if it mentions anything about the parents being married or not?
At the end does it say they couldnt read or write?


Many thanks
Emmy

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Luca
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this a birth act or a baptismal record? Reply with quote

Foglio 3
Angelo Fuoco secondo eletto (!), ed Ufficiale dello Stato Civile del Comune di Acquafondata, pregono(?) il Signor Economo di detto Comune di amministrare il Sacramento del Santo Battesimo al neonato Casimiro De Filippis, figlio dei coniugi Luigi e Domenica Cascarino, nato nel di 5 Febbraio 1823 ad ore 12 nella casa di detti genitori.
Il 2° eletto (!) nel rimettere il presente notamento al Signor economo, lo prega di restituirlo coll'indicazione del giorno in cui è stato battezzato, per adempire alle disposizioni delle leggi.
Acquafondata 5 Febbraio 1825
Firma del 2° eletto Angelo Fuoco
Francesco Cascarino Primo Cancelliere

Attesto io qui sottoscritto Economo Curato del Comune di Acquafondata di aver battezzato Casimiro figlio di Luigi de Philippis, e di Domenica Cascarino nel giorno 5 Febbraio 1823.
Acquafondata 6 Gennaio(sic) 1823.
Giuseppe Pastore Economo.


I hope someone will translate for you.

Ciao
Luca
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Emmy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Is this a birth act or a baptismal record? Reply with quote

Many Many Thanks Luca kiss
I tried putting it in on google but it didnt make much sense but maybe some kind person will translate it for me

But if this IS page 3 of some other documents perhaps I will be lucky when that other film arrives. but its still a puzzle why Casimiro's details are there.

Emmy

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Luca
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Is this a birth act or a baptismal record? Reply with quote

Shortly: it was the request done by the registrar to the priest to give the baptism at Casimiro De Filippis (son of Luigi and Domenica Cascarino) and to return the document filled up to perform the laws in force at that time. The Priest did it and gave back the doc the following day.
Hope my explanation was clear!

Luca
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Emmy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this a birth act or a baptismal record? Reply with quote

In your debt once more Luca
Thanks a million kiss
Emmy

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: Is this a birth act or a baptismal record? Reply with quote

What used to happen is that the father took the baby to the Comune to register the birth (he had to actually produce the baby) who did the paperwork, gave him the document which he then took to the church where the priest baptized the baby, added his documentation to the Comune record, signed it, then gave it back to the father to return to the Comune. It would appear that the father didn't take the paperwork back to the Comune so they are writing to the Priest (pregono - please) to document everything for their records, just like Luca said.

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Luca
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Is this a birth act or a baptismal record? Reply with quote

The first part of your post was right

Italysearcher wrote:
the father took the baby to the Comune to register the birth who did the paperwork, gave him the document which he then took to the church where the priest baptized the baby

Not the same for the conclusion

Italysearcher wrote:
...It would appear that the father didn't take the paperwork back to the Comune so they are writing to the Priest (pregono - please) to document everything for their records, just like Luca said.

The father, indeed, took the paperwork back with the notation of the Priest. The words referring to this action are:
"Attesto io qui sottoscritto Economo Curato del Comune di Acquafondata di aver battezzato Casimiro figlio di Luigi de Philippis, e di Domenica Cascarino nel giorno 5 Febbraio 1823.
Acquafondata 6 Gennaio(sic) 1823.
Giuseppe Pastore Economo."
that is: I (Giuseppe Pastore priest in Acquafondata) certify that on the February 5th 1823 I gave the baptism to Casimiro De Filippis (son of Luigi and Domenica)
If you look carefully you can also see a different handwriting between the first part of the doc and the last
Alas, there is a mistake done by the priest: he wrote 6 Gennaio (January) instead of Febbraio (February)
[ sorry for my bad English ]

Luca
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Is this a birth act or a baptismal record? Reply with quote

When I said the father didn't take the paperwork back, I meant originally. Usually the same day as the baptism. This form looks to me like something done after the fact (like when he married and needed his birth/baptism certificate). I could be wrong!

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Luca
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this a birth act or a baptismal record? Reply with quote

Ok.
Maybe the following day; it's probable that he christened the child late in the afternoon (February 5th) then filled up the paper on the 6 of February (nor January) and gave it to the father to bring it back. The year is, however, clearly 1823 (both the birth and the notation)

Luca
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Emmy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this a birth act or a baptismal record? Reply with quote

Thanks to both of you but I still cant understand why Casimiro's Baptism/birth act is included in this film because it was his parent's marriage I was searching for-beginning 1820 onwards and I thought it should have been documents relating to Casimiro's grandparents that would have been included here. Confused Confused
Still very confused.
Emmy

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Luca
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this a birth act or a baptismal record? Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
... al neonato Casimiro De Filippis, figlio dei coniugi Luigi e Domenica Cascarino,

It says "coniugi": it means that in 1823 (the exact day of the baptism is february 5th) they were already married (but it doesn't say about the date of the marriage)

Luca
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Emmy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this a birth act or a baptismal record? Reply with quote

Many Thanks AGAIN Luca It's so kind of you to try to explain this to me. It will be interesting to find out what is on the other film when it comes.
Grateful for your help
Emmy

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